AIBU to think that we will never have equality while..

[iamruth]

We continue to treat men and/or allow them to behave like the inferior/ less responsible parent?

I’m not suggesting all men should start taking unpaid leave all the time etc but if they’re not treated as having nothing the same rights and responsibilities as mothers (clearly I’m excluding DV perpetrators of both secession actually here etc) then how will anything change? We can’t really expect them to have the same responsibilities without having the same rights.

*sexes not secession obviously

What rights don’t they have?

Poor men.
No rights. 🧸

Maybe if more men stepped up to do basic parenting then they would take more responsibility as well?

Er... what?

My husband is just as capable as me and a fully functioning parent like all my friends’ husbands/partners.

What you need is to ensure you don’t have a baby with a twat and bring up your sons to respect parenthood and understand the time that’s needed.

@Merryoldgoat I absolutely agree they are just as capable and we should absolutely uphold this aAs an expectation for all men who are fathers in society

Um, we have equity, with the welfare of the children as paramount, but a mutual concern for each other's welfare, in our family.

There's give, take, compassion, and compromise. Oh, and trust. And respect.

At law, yes, we do both have the same responsibilities, and rights.

I think you might be getting at parental leave how it isn’t equal? And how men babysit their kids while women look after their children.

People comment how nice it is to see men playing with the kids but people don’t normally with women.

I don’t think OP is saying men don’t have rights, we know they are still treated equal to or better than women occasionally.

I think they are getting at men not sharing raising our children equally even when both parents might work?

@Howlooseisyourgoose I agree, we need to right the societal norms that it’s almost acceptable for men to be average to shit parents

What rights don't men have? Why is it women's responsibility if men don't step up when they have kids? I include those like pp who say 'don't have a baby with a twat, look at me - I'm so clever because my husband is great and so are all my friends husbands' subtext being it's the women's fault the men don't step up - the women should have known. Not all men advertise what incompetent useless fathers they will be ahead of time.

It's important to remember that when we become parents, we don't cease to be people, with our own limitations and issues to consider, particularly if they may reflect on the well-being and care of the child.

Ok - I agree OP, we do need to change the societal norms. But men need to lead this change really, and women wanting equality is a totally separate issue. I mean they're linked but they are also separate.

Are you just talking about equality of the sexes?

Because, let's face it, the vast and profound inequalities we see in life in education, wealth, freedom etc wont be solved in my lifetime. And as for sex equality - that could be a good few more lifetimes.

@LG101

Yes I am. Parental leave and better shared parental leave would even out lots of inequality women face when both parents work.

I’m also partly inspired by another thread whereby it seems perfectly reasonable for a woman to take her baby to another continent for 6 months but if the man suggested that it would be outrageous. I’m suggesting both parents should have equal rights and responsibilities in societal norms not just law

Yanbu

Increasing availability and use of paternal leave would close the gap

@BewareTheBeardedDragon

I think it absolutely should not be a woman’s job and that there should be far more expectation from society as a whole that men step up. Women would be absolutely berated if they behaved like men in those circumstances but if a man for example didn’t want a partner to take a child to another continent for 6 months then “it’s ok, baby won’t miss dad”

Men should definitely have paternity leave entitlement enshrined in law.

My understanding is that some employers offer shared leave (mostly public sector) but not all. It’s very discriminatory and I don’t understand why existing equality legislation. doesn’t cover it.

I hear you OP. I probably would fit in the radfem category but our family is quite traditional. Dh is a late & reluctant driver so I tend to take the lions share of more driving jobs which covers a lot.

I have friends who always cook the tea & day things to their dh like 'would you just vacuum the hall for me'. I'm always pointing out language like 'for me' as it's everyone in the house that benefits.

It's hard to work out a fair split of parental duties but I somewhat agree. I'd say schools have a much higher % of mother's numbers than fathers.

I have a friend whose DS was unwell on and off last year and his dad's workplace insisted that mum should have the time off work to stay at home with him

Only one example and I'm sure it isn't the same for all workplaces but still...

@buckeejit I guess we also have quite a traditional set up, three kids in primary, husband works shifts full time, i work part time (4 day’s) etc. I absolutely accept I do the lions share of some things but I still occasionally have to discuss with my husband his expectation that I ask him to do things or remind him to pick the kids up on his turn etc.

Recently I posted that I’d taken exception to my MIL saying “that’s what mums do” (no that’s what parents do!) and some people couldn’t understand me taking exception to This at all

[quote iamruth]@BewareTheBeardedDragon

I think it absolutely should not be a woman’s job and that there should be far more expectation from society as a whole that men step up. Women would be absolutely berated if they behaved like men in those circumstances but if a man for example didn’t want a partner to take a child to another continent for 6 months then “it’s ok, baby won’t miss dad”[/quote]
I'd say that is rather an unusual opinion - that it would be just fine and dandy for a woman to swan off with baby leaving dad behind for so long (in absence of any safety issues), but I don't think you want to make this a TAAT

It's my understanding that, whenever parental leave laws have been changed such that men can take more time, very few of them actually take it.

It'd be lovely to think that 100% of men are just dying to be equal parents and only fail to find the time for their children because they missed out on sufficient parental leave (and what would be sufficient, exactly?). But I think it's far more complicated.

TAAT's are a no-no, aren't they? Also, just from being on that thread, the OP in that thread was initially saying 4-6 months, would that be a goer (in Covid, going to NZ with her family, suffering PND and all), and was very accepting that yes, that would be too long, but 2-3 months, possibility, with agreement, consent and support of husband. . .

@BewareTheBeardedDragon

But the point is why should men step up to the same responsibilities if they don’t have the same rights?

I wouldn’t step up to the same level of responsibilities as my boss but not have the same right of pay, pension, benefits and leave etc that would be unfair.

I have a friend whose DS was unwell on and off last year and his dad's workplace insisted that mum should have the time off work to stay at home with him

This. My DH faced that a lot when he first started to ask for flexible working arrangement to look after the kids (we both work, and share the "childcare burden" 50/50)
He was very willing, but his employer was all "oh but can't your wife do it?"