to ask if my son is being ripped off?

[BlackBucketOfCheese]

My son has started his first weekend job (16) as a waiter in a local hotel.
Over the weekend he was given a lot of tips (over £120!!) for his hard work. He was told by his manager to put them in the tip jar, which he did assuming it would be divided up as he knows this is what happens where his friends and cousins work.

At the end of the evening he and the other new part time employees were told that actually all the tips were divided between full time staff only.

When they protested they were told that full time workers are salaried on minimum wage and stick around to clean up or lay tables, where as the part time staff were paid per hour, so the tips go to the full time staff (even those who don’t work the shift) as it is fairer.

This just seems so totally wrong!
Is my son being ripped off?
Are there any laws I can direct him to? I’ve tried looking but laws about tips all seem to be about credit card payments.

Please don't do as PP have suggested and deny the tip to the customer and explain why. People come our for a meal they don't want a life story and it looks unprofessional

If you mean me, I didn’t use to give my life story

Just said oh, thank you so much, I really appreciate it but we aren’t allowed to keep tips. Big smile, no fuss, took a couple of seconds. I’m not suggesting anybody give a detailed history of UK tipping law and the associated labour disputes.

Plenty of places have a “no tips” rule, how do you think the staff negotiate that? It isn’t isn’t awkward if you are matter of fact about it.

I don’t know if it’s legal in U.K. the part about using tips to reimburse FT staff for what is essentially unpaid overtime.
But I have in my youth worked as a waitress and maitre D in several restaurants and such rules are common.

• in one restaurant all tips were shared at end of each shift by all staff (even kitchen staff and dishwashers) on that shift except those newly hired and still on probation (first 90day).
• in one restaurant the waitresses had to put 20% of their tips in a pool which was then shared out to front of house staff only- a share to the table bussers and bar/coffee staff and a double share to maitre D.
• in one restaurant all tips were kept by the restaurant as income and in return we were all paid wages well over the average wage in the area. So yes lose a bit on a busy night, but come out ahead on a slow night.
• in one restaurant we kept all tips given directly to us, had a tip jar at the checkout counter and end of each shift would split the tip jar money except for a few bits of left over loose change that would be left in the jar for start of next shift. (Completely empty jar psychologically stops people from tipping).

If I knew a restaurant was doing this then I would never tip there again (probably wouldn't bother going either). I don't mind it going in a jar and being split between all staff, as it isn't just the waiter who is responsible for our meals, but I would object to it only being paid to full time staff. Tips aren't to supplement the lowest paid.

The only fair way is to split tips for that evening between staff who were working that evening. If they work more hours, they have more chance to get tips anyway.

This is what happened when I did bar or restaurant work. Everything would be pooled with the people who worked the shift - including kitchen staff.

I never add a tip when paying on card but ask the staff what happens with tips. I want the person whose service I'm rewarding to get the tip or at least a proportion of it. I leave cash so it's up to them then.

However, hearing this has opened my eyes. I understand tips might be shared in different ways to reflect hours worked, pot washers etc (not sure it should apply to any well paid chefs though!) but what you're describing is a scam. Your son either has to retain some of the tip discreetly, accept the system or challenge it. Two of these options might result in him being sacked. Does he want to build up some experience for a CV and potential reference?

Is there an anonymous way of putting the wind up the management about this - bad publicity on SM, local press, write them a letter?

I worked in a pub years ago, and was told to put tips in a jar as they'd be shared out later.
Well... I never say a penny. Gave them the benefit of the doubt and the same thing happened the next shift.
After that I kept my own tips.
Awful place to work, they were eventually got by food standards and fined 11k and went out of business, and they deserved it.

The tip I give is for the server. If I tip at the hair salon I trust the stylist to give a proportion to the junior staff. This should be pro rata at least

Don't hand them over! If they tackle him on it find another job. They're shits

And how will he find another job with 'sacked for pocketing tips after being told to put them in the jar' on his reference?

Whether it is fair or not.

Very bad for a 16 year old to be encouraged to surreptitiously put money in his pocket.

The hotel are saying the FT staff are min wage but on salary so occasionally work over their hours and the tips are their reward.

A quick tip-off to HMRC is called for. Unpaid overtime on a minimum wage job takes them below the minimum wage. This is illegal and several large companies have been investigated and action taken by HMRC for exactly this.

It's about time that hospitality businesses were required to publish their tip policy. Tips should be shared by all staff, front of house and behind the scenes.

If I tip someone in a restaurant I expect that money to be theirs, its my decision who and how much to tip. I would regard that as theft quite frankly.

Very bad for a 16 year old to be encouraged to surreptitiously put money in his pocket

What a topsy-turvy world.

The money in question is his.

It is much harder to keep our youngsters honest when their employers are allowed to rip them off with impunity.

If I tip someone in a restaurant I expect that money to be theirs
So you would never tip the kitchen staff that prepared your meal, only the serving staff? That's a bit mean, isn't it? - they all contributed to your enjoyment of the meal.

Yes he is being ripped off, where I used to work if it was a busy evening or special event tips were always split equally between all waiting staff. If a waiter/waitress worked independently they got to keep all tips for themselves.

Really unfair and they are taking advantage.
I used to do restaurant work, the tips all went in the jar and were shared between all the staff including kitchen. Even back then it could be £50 on top of wages.
Cheeky twats.

I used to work in a pub where the tips were shared out on a quarterly basis and the boss did a calculation based on how many hours you worked... It was very fair as ft staff got more but everyone got a proportionate amount due to hours worked which I think was fair. Your son is being ripped off.

@Pluckedpencil

Tell him to pocket the tips, I bet that's what all the other part timers do. Sounds like they are only getting ripped off.

That is terrible, terrible advice I really hope you don't work in any kind of professional job that involves ethics.

I would suggest he speaks to ACAS for advice. Here is the code on best practice (not law):

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/453089/09-1327-national-minimum-wage-code-of-best-practice-tips.pdf

Do the part time staff get paid significantly more per hour than full time staff?

When they protested they were told that full time workers are salaried on minimum wage and stick around to clean up or lay tables, where as the part time staff were paid per hour, so the tips go to the full time staff (even those who don’t work the shift) as it is fairer.

I think they might be on dodgy ground if the full time staff have to stay after their contracted hours to clean and lay tables. Even if their contacts say that they aren't paid for overtime, if it is a regular part of their job that can't be done during their contracted hours (presumably cleaning has to be done after clients have left), it isn't overtime if it is part of their job but they can't ever perform the task during their contracted hours. I would discuss that with ACAS too.

Thanks everyone.
DS is going to talk to some of the other PT staff when he is in this week and then plans to contact ACAS.

This happened at my sister's work when she was younger so when she was given a tip she would tell the customer what happens to the tips and tell them to keep it.

BatsandFrogs at 16 he is young enough to pretend he never worked there.