to ask if my son is being ripped off?

[BlackBucketOfCheese]

My son has started his first weekend job (16) as a waiter in a local hotel.
Over the weekend he was given a lot of tips (over £120!!) for his hard work. He was told by his manager to put them in the tip jar, which he did assuming it would be divided up as he knows this is what happens where his friends and cousins work.

At the end of the evening he and the other new part time employees were told that actually all the tips were divided between full time staff only.

When they protested they were told that full time workers are salaried on minimum wage and stick around to clean up or lay tables, where as the part time staff were paid per hour, so the tips go to the full time staff (even those who don’t work the shift) as it is fairer.

This just seems so totally wrong!
Is my son being ripped off?
Are there any laws I can direct him to? I’ve tried looking but laws about tips all seem to be about credit card payments.

I forgot to add, when she got confident and experienced she used to tell all her customers NOT to tip, and why [Grin]

Firstt of all, how amazing that your son, at just 16, has such a good work morale, that he got so much in tips. That is excellent. I'd pocket the tips if I was your boy. They were intended for him. And the other staff should do the same. Keep your tips for yourself. He could have used that 120 to get himself some nice winter clothes.

Tell him to pocket the tips, I bet that's what all the other part timers do. Sounds like they are only getting ripped off.

Yanbu, tips should be divided up between all staff, they can pro rota the amount for part time staff but your son should still get something!
My DD did two unpaid trial shifts at a restaurant and wasnt even allowed to keep her tips during the trial. She got the job but unsurprisingly it turned out the employer wasnt great to work for and took advantage of zero hour minimum wage staff, sadly doesnt bode well for your son.

We used to have a local (chain) restaurant in our town which would charge each waiter/waitress per table so if they didn’t get tipped from customers then they would effectively owe the restaurant money. The chain is no longer in town as everyone boycotted it when they found out.
I would always try and find out where tips went before tipping after this as it’s just not fair. Most people give tips wanting them to go to their server and not to be split between all staff, although I c an see why they do it as the chefs then wouldn’t receive tips. To not get any is outrageous for him, he should at least get a percentage.
I know a lot of people who won’t pay tips on the card which you can do in most places as you just don’t know where the tips end up.

If your son works for a chain it might be worth finding out the company policy of tips and go from there.
Sadly though, if he protests about it I assume that the restaurant will get rid of him and just fill the position with someone else (but I’m a cynic)

I assumed, for years, that tips were split equally between the kitchen and the waiting staff and then again, equally, between the people working in each section at the end of each shift...because that is what always happened in the places I worked 25 ish years ago as a pot wash/waitress!

I know that there is a lot of dodgy practice around them now though. One friend works in a place where the owners (whether working or not) always take a significant cut but I haven't heard of anything this bad until now. I certainly hope that the kitchen staff take a fair share of any tip I leave - it certainly isn't just for the wait staff. I really dislike tipping now (still do it though) for this reason.

When I was a teenage waitress in a hotel the owner kept all the tips. He said it was to cover breakages. In my 6 months there I only saw one small glass bowl get broken by a staff member. But what can you do. The power is on their side. Even more so these days, which is appalling

And it's going to get worse, imo, with the triple whammy of Tory government, no longer being entitled to EU employment rights post-Brexit and job losses due to Covid.

I really feel for people working in areas where this sort of shite goes on. Hospitality and the care sector are probably the worst imo.

[quote Iamnotacerealkiller]@penpotted

I used to work for bills and we absolutely kept tips paid by card. It would all just be an excess at the end of the day when we paid up all our recipes.

Op. I've worked in a similar environment. The unspoken practice among the staff was to only declare part of the tip and keep the rest. Considering on a shift I got tipped anything from 5-60 and everyone did the same it was fine. Just tuck the cash in a pocket. They can't prove it's not yours![/quote]
Sorry but that's just not true. Bills adds a 12.5% "service charge" and this is not passed directly on to waiting staff.

Customers can ask for the service charge to be removed and decide to tip the waiters instead but management keep a log of how often this happens and to which waiting staff. If one member of staff is seen to be having service charge removed too often (ie to take tips from customers directly) then they are subject to investigation!

They are on very dodgy ground paying min wage salaries anyway, was it Sports Direct who got hammered for this? Mandatory bag checks took everyone 15mins over their salaried hours which meant they were getting less than minimum wage.

I imagine hospitality staff are working 40+ hrs so if their min wage salary is based on 40 hrs then even a few minutes over is illegal. And they can’t count tronc in the min wage. Personally I’d shop them. They should be paying an hourly rate.

If your son is getting £120 tips on a first shift he must be shit hot

I’m not sure it will remain that way for long. People in our city went mad over the weekend, as one last socialising hurrah.
Everywhere was packed and people were ordering bottles of wine that wouldn’t be ordered usually and having several courses extra. Apparently one guy handed all of the staff cash as he walked out.

I’m going to sit down with him tonight and talk this through.
I don’t want to embarrass him by wading in there so I’m going to talk through various was to handle it sensibly.

I’m very wary of him pocketing the cash. He is a very young 16 and whilst it may be technically ok for him to do that, I do wonder if they will kick off and accuse him of theft in front of a whole restaurant or other staff. I think that would knock him down and he is has really worked hard on building his confidence up and getting this job off his own back.

When I was a barmaid/waitress it was standard for the owners to keep the tips, on pain of being sacked (multiple different employers, after the law was changed re: credit card payments).

I just used to refuse tips, and say the customer was better off keeping the money than the shareholders. To the point where I ran after people who left money on the table to give it back to them.

That’s what I’d recommend your son does. You won’t change their policy. But no need to put money in the hands of the owners (I bet the full timers don’t end up breaking even either, if they are getting tips in lieu of overtime).

Tell him to pocket the tips, I bet that's what all the other part timers do.

If all tips go in the till, and you are found with cash on you, you will get sacked and possibly have the police called. Happened to one of my friends - found with £5 in her pocket at the end of the shift, and she was accused of theft.

It was her lunch money, and the tills weren’t down, but they still called the police and she was arrested for theft (obviously charges were dropped because there was zero evidence beyond her vindictive supervisor, but still quite traumatic for her as an 18yr old).

I have no issue with tips being shared among all staff - let's face it, we never get to see the poor devils who are sweating their b**s off in the kitchen, making our food.

I agree.

But like others on here I tip for good service and expect the serving staff to get at least a proportion of what I give them.

globalpayrollassociation.com/blogs/regional-focus/uk-legislation-on-tipping-staff-about-to-be-overhauled

Pragmatically I would advise your Ds to work hard, get a good reference and then at his next job, ask at interview what the tip policy is.

Unless there is a group of p/t staff who are prepared to work together to make the case to management that the policy is unfair.

He definitely should not pocket the cash. Terrible advice.

@RainingBatsAndFrogs

He definitely should not pocket the cash. Terrible advice.

I agree - he could end up being accused of theft, and even if it went no further, it would be a horrible thing to happen to him.

Where I work we keep cash tips. If I’m working the restaurant side alone (most nights) the tips are mine. Otherwise we split it. Card tips are divided up by an independent troncmaster and paid through our wages (usually an extra £10-£20 a month).

I’m pretty sure the law changed recently regarding tips, my contract has a whole section on our rights.

@Lifeisforalimitedperiodonly

I never tip on the card machine that asks if I want to leave a gratuity. I don't trust that the staff get them. After this story, what I shall do in future when the bill comes is that I will ask the waiter if they personally get the tips or if they go in the pot. If they go in the pot - I ain't tipping.

They often go in the pot so the kitchen staff get tips though.

Sounds very unfair. I expect the tip to be shared between kitchen staff, waiters and the people bussing the tables as they’ve all contributed. I wouldn’t expect that the waiter that served me got nothing but somebody who wasn’t even on shift got some.

It should be divided out on a shift basis dependant on who was there. Your son is already effectively getting less pay for the same hours as his minimum wage is less due to age.

But I think even the ‘good’ hospitality venues are shady when it comes to pay.

I’m on min wage. The higher rate because I’m well old. I’ve got twenty years on most of my colleagues.

I recently completed the training to move up a rung. My colleague (18) who did the training as well has had a 70p an hour pay bump. I haven’t. Because, and I quote, I’m already on the maximum minimum wage.

They also do a scheme where you get cash for 5* reviews. They give you the cash out of the till. Then it gets added to your gross wage, you pay tax on it, and it’s deducted from your net. I can’t quite get my head round it but I think we end up losing money...

The only fair way is to split tips for that evening between staff who were working that evening. If they work more hours, they have more chance to get tips anyway.

We used to split tips between two/three waitresses and kitchen porter and still ended up with between £10-£20 each or more on Saturday night and this was 20 odd years ago. Made a vast difference to me when I was 17/18 getting paid £3 an hour, it often doubled my earnings for the evening.

I think I will ask the server now on re what happens to tips. If there is a service charge added automatically, I’ll assume kitchen staff get a share of that, and give the server cash for good service.

He can't go against their instruction to put the tips in a communal jar, that would be a sackable offence I expect.

I think the restaurant needs to be pressured into changing their policy. Perhaps by being named and shamed locally to alert customers that waiters don't keep any of their tips. If the customers started to complain, they would probably change their policy.

If I were your friend, I would happily be a secret customer, visit and ask the question then ask to speak to the manager and ask for clarification. Then if they said my waiter received no tip, to post on local residents page social media and TripAdvisor.

I think it needs to be a friend, not you or your son to keep him out of trouble.

i've worked in various hotels/restaurants over the years. in my experience most places pool the staff adn you get a proportion according to the number of hours worked. i feel this is fair as the back of house staff (chefs etc) then get a % share.

he is being ripped off. if he got 120 in one night - he must be pretty good so i'd go and find a better restaurant to work at if i were him.