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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to ask if my son is being ripped off?

145 replies

BlackBucketOfCheese · 11/10/2020 22:45

My son has started his first weekend job (16) as a waiter in a local hotel.
Over the weekend he was given a lot of tips (over £120!!) for his hard work. He was told by his manager to put them in the tip jar, which he did assuming it would be divided up as he knows this is what happens where his friends and cousins work.

At the end of the evening he and the other new part time employees were told that actually all the tips were divided between full time staff only.

When they protested they were told that full time workers are salaried on minimum wage and stick around to clean up or lay tables, where as the part time staff were paid per hour, so the tips go to the full time staff (even those who don’t work the shift) as it is fairer.

This just seems so totally wrong!
Is my son being ripped off?
Are there any laws I can direct him to? I’ve tried looking but laws about tips all seem to be about credit card payments.

OP posts:

C8H10N4O2 · 11/10/2020 23:49

The hotel are saying the FT staff are min wage but on salary so occasionally work over their hours and the tips are their reward.

That is a euphemism for "we evade the minimum wage and use tips to top it up". If they can't do the job in the paid hours they should get more paid hours.

spongedog · 11/10/2020 23:50

@Wingedharpy

As I've become older and wiser, I always ask my waiter/ess what happens with tips at this establishment, before I give it. If it is not going to staff, I wouldn't leave one. I have no issue with tips being shared among all staff - let's face it, we never get to see the poor devils who are sweating their b**s off in the kitchen, making our food. I think the system you describe OP, is very unfair. I can see that it would maybe be unfair to give a part time worker as much, in tips, as a full time worker, but can see no reason why there couldn't be a pro rata system. I would be tempted to do "one for the pot and one for me" in your son's shoes!

Me too - certainly with the older, perhaps not wiser.

I am really cross about how companies deal with this. Of course tipping is to reward good service by that individual and the team of staff. (As you say those sweating buckets in the kitchen also contribute). How dare these companies effectively steal money from normally quite young and naive staff.

Name and shame - we all have to do this.

So in one of my nearest towns - the then manager at Wagamamas was guilty of of this - offering "trial" shifts. The teenagers were either not paid or poorly treated. One mum took offence and contacted head office. I am not sure if the manager is still there but it was interesting to see the correspondence between her and head office. She;d had advised them that she would be making it public. This is not dissimilar. Young people need to know which companies are honest and decent, and those that arent.

EveryDayIsADuvetDay · 11/10/2020 23:56

gov website recommends contacting acas
www.gov.uk/tips-at-work

BritWifeinUSA · 11/10/2020 23:57

Is this a chain hotel or an independent one? If it’s a chain, I would contact head office as I can’t imagine that this is corporate policy.

Viviennemary · 12/10/2020 00:00

That's an absolute disgrace. I'd report them.

HibiscusNell · 12/10/2020 00:00

I always ask what happens to the tip before I tip.

My son had the same thing happen to him in a busy city centre Cafe Nero. No one mentioned tips to him other than to say they were shared out at the end of the month. He worked longer hours than any other staff (well over 50 a week ) during the month but received no tips at all. Apparently employees who are still in probation period don't get tips.
Tips don't make up that much in a coffee shop but it was still worth having.

FortunesFave · 12/10/2020 00:02

This happened to me as a waitress aged 16 and I was so disgusted that I left.

But your son can't do that in this job climate. I'd advise him to pocket anything he's given on the sly. If any Manager sees him, then he can say "The customer said "This is for you, please keep it in your pocket" which is actually what some customers did say to me as a kid...they knew what tends to go on in restaurants.

My DH had similar as a student...all the tips were saved and went towards the Christmas do...which was ridiculous as DH didn't drink alcohol!

NoIDontWatchLoveIsland · 12/10/2020 00:03

Report them.

It's one thing expecting a proportion of tips to be shared with kitchen staff like the chef, another thing entirely to pinch his whole tip. He should not hand any over. It is not theft, customers gift that cash directly to him and intend him to have it.

36pregnant · 12/10/2020 00:03

Not unfair as such.

36pregnant · 12/10/2020 00:03

When I tip it’s for the people preparing my food as well as the waiting staff.

FortunesFave · 12/10/2020 00:03

I can see other posters also ask the staff to keep the tips or ask where it goes. It's a good idea....poor kids deserve their tips!

VenusTiger · 12/10/2020 00:11

Screw that OP! Tell him to politely decline tips, telling the customer that he doesn't get them as he's part time. He'll be telling the truth, and I'll bet 100% of the customers will not give him a penny. I'm sure I'm not the only one who always asks anyway before tipping, if it goes to the person I'm handing it to. I've been there, worked pubs, bars, restaurants when I was a student and believe me, I made more in tips than in wages. It's disgraceful and completely dishonest towards the customer, who is always right!
He needs to get another job too.

RantyAnty · 12/10/2020 00:15

That's just awful.
He should keep all his tips as his service was good and the people thought he deserved them.

Aren't people in the kitchen paid more than servers?

valtandsinegar · 12/10/2020 00:16

"As the law currently stands, employees are only legally entitled to retain a cash tip as they are considered their property rather than their employers'. Tips paid on credit or debit cards, on the other hand, are deemed their employers' property" - from the Global Payroll Association.

I believe this is due to be overhauled soon. For the meantime, I would inform your son that he is legally entitled to keep his cash tips, and suggest he find another job ASAP. It is a very bad indicator of how they view their staff if they are not giving them their tips.

Whatdowehaveherethen · 12/10/2020 00:21

Similar happened to me when working at Harvester whilst I was at college. I wasn't a waitress but my job was to clean and set tables/ask customers if there was anything else they needed. I was regularly tipped throughout my shift for my 'good service' but it had to go in the pot. At the end of my shift I was given £2 and the rest was divided between the waiters.

Since then I always ask whoever is waiting on me how any tips would be used. If I'm told it goes into a pot, I will discretely hand it to the person/people waiting on me. I've gone so far as asking them if they have PayPal and tipping then that way.

The industry is a farce.

36pregnant · 12/10/2020 00:21

@RantyAnty if the food is pants you are 100% not going back to the restaurant. Working in a kitchen has a different skills set and many are low paid at the start. I think it’s a team effort.

Dreading2020sSeasonFinale · 12/10/2020 00:23

I worked in a fancy, expensive, but very very small place. No more than 10 tables but each one paying around £100 per head. Tips were as you would expect, a minimum of £20 a table, some were far more. All at least 10% of the bill.

I was on minimum wage, possibly less. I didn't work it out because I was on a set monthly wage and never kept a note of my hours until I realised that some days I was working from 3pm until as late as 1am. And I only worked there for 3 months before quitting. Looking back I was probably being ripped off massively as well as the boss trying to get in my underwear, breaking every hygiene and H&S law he could (filthy Git never washed his hands and berated me for doing so!)

And the £200+ tips I earned being the ONLY waitress there whilst all the boss did was walk around schmoozing with the guests, I saw none. Not a penny.

I think we should all ask who gets the tips now before giving them. I do.

Graphista · 12/10/2020 00:26

Aren't people in the kitchen paid more than servers?

Haha! Err no!

The whole industry needs a massive overhaul but that will never happen under a Tory govt.

Give Acas a call to determine the actual law and then he's armed with knowledge and yes I agree he needs to work elsewhere ASAP - not easy at the moment I know!

Wish him luck from me!

Stroller15 · 12/10/2020 00:26

Agree with PP - if it's a chain, I would report to head office, can't believe this would be the policy. I worked in hospitality for 10 years, I would advise your son to pocket his tips. Also would advise him to get another job - the overall culture at this place doesn't sound great.

AToBiba · 12/10/2020 00:27

I would inform your son that he is legally entitled to keep his cash tips, and suggest he find another job ASAP

He is legally entitled, however it will probably be his last day there. Which is shitty.

When I was a teenage waitress in a hotel the owner kept all the tips. He said it was to cover breakages. In my 6 months there I only saw one small glass bowl get broken by a staff member. But what can you do. The power is on their side. Even more so these days, which is appalling.

Didkdt · 12/10/2020 00:28

I always ask how tips are worked out.
If I was told of that scenario I’d leave no tip, because then yes FT workers wouldn’t be subsidised but the owner would have to come up with another solution. —like paying staff properly—

Original poster

BlackBucketOfCheese · 12/10/2020 00:28

It is an independent hotel (mostly used as a restaurant at the moment).

OP posts:

olderwhynotwiser · 12/10/2020 00:29

I think it is reasonable to share out tips with kitchen staff who are also often on minimum wage. However, if your son is not going to receive any of the tips he gets I think it is very unreasonable to expect him to hand them all over. The awful thing is that it puts him in the position of having to hide some of the tips he is given if he is to get any at all. I know that this would really upset my 15 year old grandson. Sadly I would be inclined to encourage him to discreetly keep some but this makes his position invidious. Why should he have to be sneaky about keeping some of what he received for his hard work?

KarlKennedysDurianFruit · 12/10/2020 00:34

This is wildly unfair. When I was a student I waitressed for a large chain, part time or full time you kept your tips, you were expected to tip the bar for making drinks for your tables (they were tipped by bar only customers so making drinks for your tables could cost them) and the busser for cleaning and re-laying your tables, there was no fixed amount. I decided early on to be generous, this was early 2000s and I could make £200 tips on a Saturday night without my hourly rate, it meant my drinks always came quickly, my tables were always cleared and reset first so I turned over more customers in a night, my busser would run and grab a table's drinks if they could see I was busy and the more I earned the more they earned. It was actually a good lesson in building working relationships. Some wait staff didn't tip much at all then wondered why no one was keen to help them.

KarlKennedysDurianFruit · 12/10/2020 00:36

The kitchen staff were on commission contracts so the more plates they produced the more they earned, so we didn't tip them. Might buy them a round of drinks if we had a particularly good double shift though

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