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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to ask if my son is being ripped off?

145 replies

BlackBucketOfCheese · 11/10/2020 22:45

My son has started his first weekend job (16) as a waiter in a local hotel.
Over the weekend he was given a lot of tips (over £120!!) for his hard work. He was told by his manager to put them in the tip jar, which he did assuming it would be divided up as he knows this is what happens where his friends and cousins work.

At the end of the evening he and the other new part time employees were told that actually all the tips were divided between full time staff only.

When they protested they were told that full time workers are salaried on minimum wage and stick around to clean up or lay tables, where as the part time staff were paid per hour, so the tips go to the full time staff (even those who don’t work the shift) as it is fairer.

This just seems so totally wrong!
Is my son being ripped off?
Are there any laws I can direct him to? I’ve tried looking but laws about tips all seem to be about credit card payments.

OP posts:
Standrewsschool · 12/10/2020 07:46

My son used to work in a local pub/Restaurent. He used to get a share of the tips.

I presume the tip is for all the staff, chefs and waiters, not just the waiter.

OverTheRainbow88 · 12/10/2020 07:47

We used to put tips in a jar and split them evenly for those that worked that night.

I would suggest your son kicks up a major fuss or looks elsewhere and once he finds something resign. The company are taking the major piss

Nottherealslimshady · 12/10/2020 07:49

The full time workers should be getting paid what they earn and tips should be shared between all workers in that shift

Bluntness100 · 12/10/2020 07:51

That’s awful but not sure much can be done about it. When my daughter was a student the place she worked in, all tips were collected and then split between all staff who worked that night, which I think is the fairer way to do it.

Telling part time employees to hand over their tips to the full time ones is shit.

ErickBroch · 12/10/2020 08:10

I used to work in a pub on weekends and of course tips are split because otherwise chefs and kitchen staff wouldn't get anything. But as a PT staff member I got a certain percentage - it was based on how many hours you worked.

CaptainMyCaptain · 12/10/2020 08:14

It's called the tronc system I think.

I always understood the tronc system to be a share out between all employees to give non customer facing staff (e.g. pot washers) a share. It was the the way it was done when I did waitressing in the 70s and when my daughter did it in the 90s. I just looked it up and found this:
www.gov.uk/guidance/employee-gets-tips-gratuities-or-service-charges-through-a-tronc

36pregnant · 12/10/2020 08:25

Aren’t the full time workers working on a weekend as well?

NotSorry · 12/10/2020 08:26

My DDs first part-time job was washing up - she was given a share of the tips - your son is being treated disgracefully

Angelina82 · 12/10/2020 08:30

This is another reason I don’t tip anymore. YANBU to be aggrieved in your son’s behalf.

AwaAnBileYerHeid · 12/10/2020 08:31

The whole industry needs a massive overhaul but that will never happen under a Tory govt.

I didn't realise that restaurant staff were much better paid under a labour government. They certainly aren't under the SNP up here.

AwaAnBileYerHeid · 12/10/2020 08:42

Yes, your son is being ripped off. They're telling the PT staff that they aren't getting it because it goes to the FT staff? I wonder what the FT staff are being told- that tips are going to the PT staff because they're on a lower wage...? It would be interesting to know exactly where all the tips are going.

Also as pp's have said, if the tips are going to make up a shortfall of the full timers wages due to them staying on and effectively doing unpaid hours, then yes, this is illegal. ACAS would be your best port of call.

Iamnotacerealkiller · 12/10/2020 08:44

@penpotted

I used to work for bills and we absolutely kept tips paid by card. It would all just be an excess at the end of the day when we paid up all our recipes.

Op. I've worked in a similar environment. The unspoken practice among the staff was to only declare part of the tip and keep the rest. Considering on a shift I got tipped anything from 5-60 and everyone did the same it was fine. Just tuck the cash in a pocket. They can't prove it's not yours!

Cuddling57 · 12/10/2020 08:48

One for your DS, two for the pot.

Pr1mr0se · 12/10/2020 08:57

£120 is one hell of a tip collection for a weekend of work. Well done him!

Can all the part time workers collectively complain?

Alternatively, can he find a way of keeping the tips discretely?

CharlottesComplicatedWeb · 12/10/2020 09:01

Dreadful. YANBU

AmazingBouncingFerret · 12/10/2020 09:03

The trouble with tips is they are very much left to the individual managers decision because if any head office was to officially acknowledge the receiving of tips then it was have to be declared as income and then taxed.
I manage a coffee shop and when we actively accepted tips I saved them throughout the year and split equally between ALL staff as a Christmas bonus. As a team of 6 we would all look at getting a nice £300 envelope each. This year is very different though. We’ll be lucky to get a tenner each!

Wheytaminute · 12/10/2020 09:05

I often wonder about this and have asked waiting staff what happens to tips paid on card. I tend to leave cash instead but I guess that could end up having to be shared out too.

As a teenager waitresse in a very popular restaurant and all tips were shared fairly.

TheTeenageYears · 12/10/2020 09:10

I've heard of waiting staff keeping all tips given, all handed in and divided by the staff on that shift or all handed in over a week and divided proportionately across all staff but never what @BlackBucketOfCheese DS has experienced- that's outrageous. Other than either going out on a limb and speaking to others who work there about it and trying to collectively challenge i'm not really sure what he can do.

I wouldn't advise he keeps tips himself, it will just look bad if someone sees and at 16 I doubt he has the confidence to deal with any situation which might arise if he were seen, he probably shouldn't actively tell customers what's happening unless they ask as that's effectively bad mouthing the business. If a customer specifically asks he can tell them in a fact based way which may alter their desire to tip or might make them challenge the management. If you know anyone who uses the restaurant maybe you could ask them to ask him and challenge management about it with the fact based answer he gives.

bobbiester · 12/10/2020 09:14

Years ago when I waited tables all the tips went into a big pot - something was set aside for the kitchen staff and the rests was divided up among the wait staff according to how many hours they worked that week.

So generally a very fair system. However, we had one dodgy assistant manager - and if there was a "dine-and-dash" she would take the bill out of tip pot to cover it.

Anotherlovelybitofsquirrel · 12/10/2020 09:17

He's being robbed, literally. It's disgusting. I'd go to see the manager. Sharpish.

cochineal7 · 12/10/2020 09:20

If they are indeed using the tips to top up full time staff’s wages to minimum wage I think you can probably report that.

CoralFish · 12/10/2020 09:22

The hotel are saying the FT staff are min wage but on salary so occasionally work over their hours

Actually it sounds like everyone is being ripped off. If the FT staff are working more hours than they are contracted at minimum wage on a salary then that is illegal. I am not sure about the legitimacy of making up the extra hours through tips, but I assume it is not being calculated officially. Even if the staff are 'voluntarily' working these extra hours, it is still the employer's responsibility to ensure that they get the right pay. You cannot waive your right to minimum wage.

Pumpertrumper · 12/10/2020 09:25

OP they absolutely aren’t ‘allowed’ to do this.

It doesn’t surprise me that they are but they aren’t legally allowed to take cash tips given by customers to a specific member of staff and give them directly to another member of staff. They get away with this sort of ‘it’s just how we do things here’ behaviour because young and impressionable teens don’t question it.

I would suggest 2 things.

  1. DS discreetly slip his cash tip into his pocket. It’s not illegal to do this, unless it’s written in his contract but frankly I would fall off my chair if it were. If he is seen/confronted he will have to be confident enough to stand his ground though ‘the customer gave this money specifically to me as a reflection of my service. I never agreed to hand my tips over to FT staff and it’s not in my contract’

  2. DS start telling customers ‘that’s very kind but they don’t actually allow us to keep our tips here so don’t worry about it’. I’ve had this happen to me in restaurants before and thought nothing of it as a customer, I’d rather know and not waste my money.

If either of these things leads to him being reprimanded or let go I wouldn’t hesitate to name and shame the hotel on social media or involve a local news outlet.

It’s terrible practice and frankly exploitation of the young and impressionable workers

dottiedodah · 12/10/2020 09:31

This seems very wrong to me! How can tips given to P/T staff who have been waiting on tables ,and struck up a rapport with their customers possibly have to forego the tips meant for them? I am left wondering if this is some sort of scam set up by senior members, to rip off the new guys! I think he should look for a new job if possible maybe in a chain restaurant

HaggieMaggie · 12/10/2020 09:32

Disgusting, my friends DD had to put their tips into a jar. She was on the absolute minimum wage for her age, 16.

She was paid in cash at the end of each shift.............from the fucking tip jar. Greedy, tax avoiding, slimy bastards. Never went to their restaurant again.