To tell my sister a slightly harsh truth?

[GlummyMcGlummerson]

My sister's LG has just started pre-school, she's 4, has been 3 times (plus settling in morning), is happy when she's there (according to the teacher) but at home she says she doesn't want to go.

She gives various reasons as to why - she can't reach the coat hook and apparently no one helps her, she can't have juice at snack time only milk or water and she doesn't like getting changed for PE.

DSis at one pick up (and in front of her DD) asked the school if she can take juice in and stay in her uniform for PE - the answer was no to both. She asked them about the coat hook and they said they do help, DN just needs to ask.

DSis also told me that, at drop off, DN cries and Dsis cries too because it upsets her so much. She was meant to go on Thursday but refused to get dressed so they kept her off and her MIL took her for the day.

Anyway I'm a teacher so DSis has asked for some advice. But I teach 14-18 year olds. I know very little about pre-schoolers, who have very different needs and the reasons for not wanting to come to school - and the remedies for that - are very different to that of a 4yo.

however - WIBU to tell her that DN needs a calming force and not a parent sobbing at the school gates? And not to go to the teachers about petty issues - even with teens I find if the parent has the appearance of being on the side of the school it makes a world of difference to the child's attitude. I would also want to say not to make a fuss at home in the morning - a firm "we are going to school get dressed please", not up for discussion type affair (my Dsis is a fantastic mother but very soft, there aren't many boundaries with her DC and I can imagine her trying to persuade her DD rather than telling her).

I always hate being asked this kind of advice as i can't especially relate, I've never been the emotional crying sort over my DC's issues - and I've been lucky as they've always just gone to school with no trouble.

She says taking her out isn't really an option - it's the school she'll go to next year (her older kids are in the same school) and there are barely any other childcare providers with places open where she lives.

would I be a massive dick and shit sister if I told her not to cry, to be firmer and to gloss over non-issues rather than raising them at the school (this may upset her)? Or should I just say sorry I don't know much about pre-schoolers and what makes them tick and I didn't have this with my kids so not really qualified to give advice?

No you wouldn't, you would be if you took the easy route out. Just prepare her for your bluntness first, soften it and tell her it's meant with love. It is after all! Good luck 💐

Speaking as a mum who has had these issues I would go slowly - drip feed the helpful knowledge you have but if you are too harsh you will just upset her

I would tart by supporting her not to cry at the school gate. From experience when your child is very unhappy it is so hard not to cry. I would encourage her to fight her own tears, make the goodbye caring but brisk and then to sob only once dd has gone.

Could she call your mum for a virtual hand hold once dd has gone in? This used to help me

Sorry, start not tart

I would tell your sister that her child doesn’t have to go to nursery and she can remove her and just send her to school when she is 5. Not all children are ready for it at 4.

No, I think you are 100% correct. I also think it's no coincidence that your children go uneventfully. Of course she will be massively pissed off because you didn't say "There, there, those teachers are as adults and you are absolutely right"

So obviously you'll need to figure how to convey that message without using those words. Unless you want a massive sulky Christmas 😁

I think you are right in your advice and she might hopefully listen to you (given that you've had parenting experience). Or she might resent it... really depends how you present it and what your relationship is like.

Or you could maybe fudge it by suggesting that she asks the pre-school for advice? They should be well practised in tactfully telling parents to grow a backbone and put a brave face on!

Tell her she needs to be firm to signal to dd that school is safe and she will be ok without mum / mum without her. It's basic parenting. I suspect the problem is your sisters anxiety and attachments.

It’s baby steps with stuff like this, she probably won’t be able to change everything all at once. Encourage her to focus on staying calm at the school gate. Follow up with calls in the evening to see how the drop off went and tell her how proud you are of her if she managed it. It was so hard for me not to cry - I did it but I used to go home and really cry there. My dd really struggled with reception

Sorry I mean to say "those teachers are all awful"!

Believe me - some kids won’t go in even if parents handle drop off perfectly. I was astounded when my dd cried every day for weeks because she’d been really excited to go and I had too. The reality she found much more difficult. It isn’t always parents’ fault.

I'm an ex primary teacher. Saying they don't want to go then being fine once you've left is perfectly normal. Sobbing etc will ramp up her daughter's anxiety. It's a great time to teach the life skill that nerves are normal, but you can overcome them & you might enjoy stuff once you try it. Bright & breezy & yes stop nitpicking over small stuff. Stress the pick up & a nice activity after it: "I'll see you later & then we will go see Nannny/watch your fave cartoon etc . If it continues longer than a few weeks ,going in early when its quiet before the chaos of everyone arriving ,helps . I've done that a couple of times with v anxious children.

There is a little girl at my dd kindergarten who cries every morning, reaching out for her mother, has to be carried in and tried to make a run for it last week after her mother had gone. Her mother is visibly upset most morning and I get it. It’s heartbreaking to watch. I gave up my idea of going back to work when Dd3 was in nursery because she was hysterical when I was dropping her off. I left it another year and she was ready then.

Honestly maybe she’s just not ready for school yet.

Tbh I’m surprised they are getting changed for PE. Ours are going in with PE kits on on PE days to reduce bags due to Covid measures. Maybe she could ask if she could go in with her PE kit already on

@Everywherethatmarywent

Tbh I’m surprised they are getting changed for PE. Ours are going in with PE kits on on PE days to reduce bags due to Covid measures. Maybe she could ask if she could go in with her PE kit already on

Yea I thought that too, kids in my school come in their kits on PE day.

Thank you for the advice it's good - I'm not the most diplomatic person so think I will have to word a reply carefully!

@GlummyMcGlummerson is there anyone else who could take her? This is usually a problem that’s only for Mom’s unfortunately

I don't think your advice is that helpful. It shows your lack of experience in helping a tiny tot who is struggling. P1 and kindergarten teachers like to know the issues so they can support the DCs whether it's an issue with hooks or getting changed.
More helpful advice would be to suggest that she asks the teacher to give DD a task/job to do in the morning to help her transition in.
I'd be concerned that her DD is upset, that she is raising particular issues and the teacher is just dismissing them. Usually with 4-yr-olds teachers suggest solutions to make the handover less fraught. Your DSIS' problem isn't that unusual. The lack of proactivity from the school is unusual.

[quote Babamamasheep]@GlummyMcGlummerson is there anyone else who could take her? This is usually a problem that’s only for Mom’s unfortunately [/quote]
Possibly her MIL - her DH sets off for work at 6am as he commutes and she lives away from the rest of us

Poor little kid, at 4 being expected to do all that.

@Onceuponatimethen

Sorry, start not tart

Gorgeous auto correct!

She's your sister, therefore there is every chance you have a good relationship, where you can speak frankly.
She asked for your opinion.
Tell her, but do it kindly. (I'm sure you would do it that way)
It's not like you are her MIL offering unsolicited advice.

Asking the school about the pe uniform and juice was positive. Her DD needs to know that mum will raise worries and they have the answer which is reasonable and can be adhered to.

Your child has had no issues going in so it must be incredibly difficult for you to relate. It is quite normal for some children to struggle with going to school. Kids have no choice about going to school and yet kids might dislike it, feel uncomfortable or shy there.

It would help if her DD found school enjoyable. Might be an idea to focus on the positive. List all the things she likes about school. Maybe set up play dates after school to help her build friendships. Fridays might involve a favourite film or film of her choice after school . Also speak to teacher with any concerns

It may help if you admit you experienced some of those issues and you found it better when you tried... (even if you didn't have the same problem) it could help soften the blow.

Be gentle. My elder ones went off to school/nursery no problem and we were all very matter of fact, encouraging etc. My youngest was brought up exactly the same way and knew the preschool setting from drop offs, knew the staff etc.

On his first day at preschool I went in as I had with the others and he was playing happily without me. I then basically said (cheerfully) goodbye, see you later etc and he started howling, clinging to me, the lot. I found it really upsetting to see my child in such distress. Fortunately the fabulous staff saw I was about to cry too so dragged him off me and bundled me out the door. Apparently he was fine as soon as I'd gone, which I knew he would be. Just trying to say that you might have been lucky with yours and she might need some support/sympathy, as well as a few (gentle) home truths.

Our school are still changing for PE normally so the PE kit thing is not universal.

It sound like DN is just not enjoying school and making excuses. So I would advise DSis to not engage with the excuses because if she solves these ones then more will come along (plus at 4 years old she's quite young to be having juice regularly anyway so this is probably a good chance to put a stop to that). It sounds like DN is just taking time to settle in to a new environment, which is natural.

The two main things I would say to DSis is 1) if you have to cry (and I'm not a weepy type so I'd probably be unduly harsh here), at least hold it together until you've left DN and got round the corner, and
2) don't look for solutions to the various non-issues DN comes home with, just explain that that's the way things are at school and it's fine and safe and fun. Then steer the conversation to the things she enjoys about the school experience.