The cremation where the sons were forced away from their mother

[fancyginglass]

You have probably seen the clip where the father has died and the mother is sitting on her own sobbing. Her two sons pull their chairs nearer her to comfort her and are told off. I'm sorry but this is barbaric. If that was my mother I couldn't leave her sobbing on her own - especially as there is no way the boys hadn't been in her house or comforted her - in fact they had been living with her for 2 1/2 weeks. I know they are trying to keep cases down but if you can't comfort someone who is bereaved what is the point?

I think it is dreadful but very hard for undertakers as if they breach the rules they might have their whole business stopped. It is the CV19 rules which are dreadful and must be abolished even if more die.

The rules are there for a reason, although I don't understand why every person was separate and not in households if the sons had been staying with their mum.

It is likely if just one son moved it would have been ok, but once the 2nd son did it and the person behind started picking up things and making movements to move next to someone else too they had to intervene before the whole place moved.

I’ve seen many an upsetting post/video etc on Social Media during the last 7 months but this one really got to me. The image of that poor woman sat alone (until family members moved their chairs) was heartbreaking.
Yet we can get on a plane to Spain with dozens of other people!!

It was ONE funeral out of the hundreds they do there. It was live streamed. Multiple people were moving. Personally, we had a lockdown funeral there, and many more before, and the staff are the most compassionate, professional people I've met. They really don't deserve the flack they are getting. Let's face it, you people who are saying it's barbaric, if it was live streamed, seven people all clumped together, and one of the papers said disgusting rule breaking risks us all! You'd be up in arms then too. We held a quick very small service, because we'll get together later, when things are safe.

And please read a previous posters repeated posts about the family not responding to request for bubble information. Everyone's knees are so jerky these days.

[quote WhereverIGoddamnLike]@CakeGirl2020

I wouldn't have gone to my father's funeral without organising it properly, which would include responding to the organiser when they asked the family what household bubbles they had so the seats could he placed in groups.

The family didnt respond. They got single seats because the assumption was there were no household bubbles. Funeral home would be fi ed and closed if they didnt enforce it. How many people should lose their jobs because the family didnt answer?[/quote]
A simple solution then would be for the staff member to ask the people if they were a bubble. If the family said yes, then leave them to it, presumably a bit annoyed that they hadn't said in advance.

If they said no, then ask them to move. If they wouldn't and the Council took it up with the Crem it would be simple to explain that they had asked and the family had refused. The Council could then decide whether to do the humane thing and tell them off.

Or, I suppose, they could issue a fine or even sack people, but that would require someone, a human, at the Council to decide that that would be the right and proportionate thing to do when the Crematorium was dealing with distressed bereaved.

This would.have caused the crematorium more.harm.than good as who would want to use their services now knowing how thry treat grieving families.

@WeAllHaveWings

They were all sitting individually because when the crematorium asked how to group the seats to allow bubbles to sit together, the family did not respond. The crematorium had to then follow the rules and assume everyone was an individual household so set it up that way. When people started moving, they had to follow the rules and tell them to move back. If they didnt, they risk being closed for good.

"Tell them to move back" if only that's what was needed - the guy came over to them screaming, shouting and waving his arms around, no compassion at all. That's what is getting some posters upset, the complete lack of compassion - just doing his job was he. Twat.

How do we know the family didn’t respond? Also if you got to the room wouldn’t you be a bit miffed if all the seats were apart.

but it has been explained by WhereverIGoddamnLike several times that the family were at fault

I don't care how many times someone has blamed a grieving family, it still doesn't make it right.

Nobody is going to phone the police if you have a family gathering in a private home after a funeral

Oh believe me they absolutely will. We had one very such call recently at work.

the council has already apologised and said their staff were too heavy-handed and that people in bubbles should be seated together

A little late, perhaps. Ironic, too, that if the family hadn't gone public with this, they'd probably still be congratulating themselves over what a good job they'd done

Such s shame they forget that if we lose our very humanity, we lose everything

@MaxNormal

but it has been explained by WhereverIGoddamnLike several times that the family were at fault

I don't care how many times someone has blamed a grieving family, it still doesn't make it right.

I didn't say it was right. I said the funeral directors should have chased it up. But, like I said, regardless, some families are not forthcoming with information, some are very difficult to get hold of, some are difficult in general, grieving or not.

It must have been an incredibly stressful and tense situation for all involved.

My dad died recently. He was cremated. Masks in the cars and no more than 4 in a car. 15 allowed in the crematorium and 2 extra to film if wanted. We are in a local lockdown area. There are benches in the crematorium and they every other was blocked off. My dad was carried in by his grandsons.
Small wake of 30 after in a local club with table service.
Not what we would have wanted but compared to others we were very lucky.

I have been to 2 Covid funerals, DP and DDad. In both cases you had to sit in family bubbles. Had I not just become a single parent because of DPs death I would have been sitting on my own at DPs funeral.

The rules are inhumane and appalling.

So many people unquestioningly follow the rules and, as other PPs have said I am becoming very worried about the direction our society is taking. Showing humanity results in you being accused of spreading the virus. Reporting your neighbours is now seen as a virtue!

I really feel we are living in a nightmare with no end.

Luckily we had very pragmatic funeral directors and celebrant.

[quote WhereverIGoddamnLike]@WeAllHaveWings

They were all sitting individually because when the crematorium asked how to group the seats to allow bubbles to sit together, the family did not respond. The crematorium had to then follow the rules and assume everyone was an individual household so set it up that way. When people started moving, they had to follow the rules and tell them to move back. If they didnt, they risk being closed for good.[/quote]
Did the family say why they didn't respond to the request for how to group seats?

If they had the option to sit in family groups why didn't they, was it a miscommunication or did they take exception to the rules the crem had to follow and assume they wouldn't be asked to move back?

@MaxNormal

but it has been explained by WhereverIGoddamnLike several times that the family were at fault

I don't care how many times someone has blamed a grieving family, it still doesn't make it right.

This.

I love the way some people are quick to blame a grieving family and not the knob working at the crem. I wouldn't normally wish unemployment on anyone but for him I'd make an exception.

I understand he might have had to say something but there are ways of doing it.

My parents work in funeral directory and were horrified by that clip. Compassion is meant to be at the heart of all stages in organising a funeral. The family may well have been meant to respond to seating arrangement requests, but grieving families usually have enough on their plate as it is.

I'm so sorry to hear so many of you have had distressing experiences. My dad has been pall bearing every (week)day since March, so there really is little reason for wheeling people in. There are some really decent funeral directors, celebrant, crematorium staff out there still.

Yet we've had travellers' funerals with up to 400 people, where apparently the police could do nothing... 🙄

I love the way some people are quick to blame a grieving family and not the knob working at the crem. I wouldn't normally wish unemployment on anyone but for him I'd make an exception.

I understand he might have had to say something but there are ways of doing it.

I'll repeat what I said above,

I didn't say it was right. I said the funeral directors should have chased it up. But, like I said, regardless, some families are not forthcoming with information, some are very difficult to get hold of, some are difficult in general, grieving or not.

It must have been an incredibly stressful and tense situation for all involved.

And just to caveat, it is so important to get funerals right for families, it is stressful in "normal" times, in this pandemic it's been horrific. I haven't seen the clip, there is a way to communicate with people, especially those in their worst moments, this particular member of staff obviously needs a reminder.

@tenlittlecygnets

Yet we've had travellers' funerals with up to 400 people, where apparently the police could do nothing... 🙄

I walked past our local crematorium recently and there was a traveller funeral taking place. They were all waiting to go in and there were definitely alot more than 30. Is there an exemption for traveller funerals then?

Read whole story. The funeral directors could have told the crem what chairs they wanted grouped togther but they didnt. The people at the crem were doing their job as they had been told to do it.

@Ghostlyglow exception for all minorities

[quote 36pregnant]@Ghostlyglow exception for all minorities[/quote]
There have been a few "official" exemptions for families where not allowing the funeral is more of a public order issue than allowing it.
They have not all been minorities and some have been after the event, in large public spaces etc e.g. this one (which wasn't "allowed" but you wouldn't know that)

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/police-called-funeral-after-hundreds-22762321