The cremation where the sons were forced away from their mother

[fancyginglass]

You have probably seen the clip where the father has died and the mother is sitting on her own sobbing. Her two sons pull their chairs nearer her to comfort her and are told off. I'm sorry but this is barbaric. If that was my mother I couldn't leave her sobbing on her own - especially as there is no way the boys hadn't been in her house or comforted her - in fact they had been living with her for 2 1/2 weeks. I know they are trying to keep cases down but if you can't comfort someone who is bereaved what is the point?

I do not disagree with the principle, but blaming the workers or their employers is wrong. They have rules to follow that are imposed by the government. If the workers break those rules then the lose their jobs, and if the employer (the local authority) allows them to break the rules, then they could be prevented from have funerals at all - as happened earlier this year. What some people here call "compassion" or "common sense" is actually breaking the rules, and in many places breaking the law. If it is ok to break that law at a funeral, it is also ok to break the law at the pub. Or anywhere else.

If you don't like the rules, take that up with the government. Because just imagine what the headlines would be if it emerged that there was an outbreak emerging from a funeral where the employees broke the rules by letting people comfort each other. Those workers would be crucified, and so would their employer. For them, it's a no win situation. So perhaps also have some compassion for them too? Key workers don't just exist in hospitals and wear PPE.

It was the crems interpretation of the rules, which they have no revisited to allow household bubbles

Yes it was wrong but it was one crem out of how many across the country?

Let’s get a grip

Yet you can sit on a packed train to get to your soul destroying job.

@MoistMolly

We had a funeral near us. 200 plus people and accompanied by a police escort for the procession and service. Apparently that was ok.

I assume you are not in the UK?

YANBU

My mum is going to be cremated soon, after a very sudden death last month, and whilst the celebrant has told us he won't enforce social distancing (so I can comfort my poor dad) we will all have to wear masks.

The kicker is the fact we cannot have any kind of commemoration after the service due to the rule of 6. Me, my DP and my kids make 6 (this doesn't include my 3 siblings and their partners and kids which takes us to about 15 people )

I know everyone has to make sacrifices and everyone has to play their part but a funeral is pretty much the only event you cannor delay or postpone.

Having to chose which members of our bereaved family can stay with dad after his wife's funeral seems so unfair. We want to be together, my mum would have wanted us to be together but we can't be.

We had a relative’s funeral recently, and the seating was arranged in socially distanced rows, so ‘bubbles’ could still sit together in their row. The crematorium were not policing specific bubbles, that was up to the mourners. This seems much more common sense to me. The layout of those chairs allowing no mixing whatsoever seems inhumane to me.

it was the way he spoke to them

Yes, that was what tipped me over the edge. It was brutal.

imagine what the headlines would be if it emerged that there was an outbreak emerging from a funeral where the employees broke the rules by letting people comfort each other. Those workers would be crucified, and so would their employer. For them, it's a no win situation

I hope you're going for satire. If not, give over. They need to take some personal responsibility for how they choose to conduct themselves and their choice to enforce inhumanity. That person made a choice to introduce brutality into a family's moment of pain.

Suggesting they would have been "crucified" (really?) because people saw an elderly widow being comforted? Who the fuck would want to live in that society? Maybe you missed the uproar following images of bereaved parents being forced to stand alone at their child's funeral.

Lawful and ethical are not the same. If your ethical code is based on blindly following whatever happens to be lawful then you have no ethics.

I would have ignored them completely. It was my granddads funeral a few weeks ago and immediate family all sat together.

Would the council have apologised if the family had not managed to get the media to take it up?

Doubtful.

We had my brother-in-laws last week. The staff honestly did their best but it's still not right.

We had to "invent" a bubble so that SiL wasn't sat on her own. Coffin wheeled in, all sat away from each other with masks on. My sons were unable to come as we have a large family.

Honestly it's like something out of a dystopian novel. and for what?

Coming at it from the position of church verger, it is so, so difficult. We don't police bubbles, we take it on word and would expect adult children to be with parents etc. We ask for masks to be worn and hand sanitizing on entry. And then clean thoroughly afterwards.

But we've been told in no uncertain terms that if social distancing isn't upheld then we can be fined and shut down, that funerals will go back to six people and at graveside only. It doesn't feel like Christianity and it's so sad, but we're trying to make the best of it and be as safe as possible (for the staff as well as the mourners, or in the case of weddings, those celebrating.)

@amicissimma

This is the country where elderly, frail and confused people are denied the presence of their loved ones for months on end. This tends to lead to a decline in their physical health as well as mental.

This. It’s insane.

The kicker is the fact we cannot have any kind of commemoration after the service due to the rule of 6. Me, my DP and my kids make 6 sad (this doesn't include my 3 siblings and their partners and kids which takes us to about 15 people blush)

Isn't there an exemption for funerals (and weddings?) where you can have 20? That's the rule in Scotland anyway, they've even graciously allowed alcohol to be served at a funeral .

imagine what the headlines would be if it emerged that there was an outbreak emerging from a funeral where the employees broke the rules by letting people comfort each other. Those workers would be crucified, and so would their employer. For them, it's a no win situation

Haha. Ya reckon? Nobody would be interested in reporting that. The agenda was first to blame working-class people going to Bournemouth beach, then non-white people gathering in Northern cities, and then young people going for half price Wagamama. Nobody is going to froth at the mouth over grieving sons.

@WaxOnFeckOff

The kicker is the fact we cannot have any kind of commemoration after the service due to the rule of 6. Me, my DP and my kids make 6 sad (this doesn't include my 3 siblings and their partners and kids which takes us to about 15 people blush)

Isn't there an exemption for funerals (and weddings?) where you can have 20? That's the rule in Scotland anyway, they've even graciously allowed alcohol to be served at a funeral .

Sadly I don't think this applies to us in England.

The family were asked beforehand to inform the funeral home of the group seating required. So, a household of 3 could have 3 chairs grouped together. They were a household and they'd been staying with her and they shared a car to the service, but they hadn't told the funeral home about the groupings so, as far as the home was aware, it was single seating.

They shouldnt have reacted the way they did, but with services being streamed online they must be very worried about being shut down by their local council. They've got procedures in place to allow for household grouping. If the families dont tell them, what more can they do if they want to avoid being closed?

They should have left them to it, and then for future services double check with the families as they enter etc but it is a stressful time for everyone when they're worried about losing their licenses.

Blame the government for making these nonsensical rules, not the people who are at risk of being shut down or fined if they don't enforce them.

@Chloemol

They did allow for household bubbles. The family were asked beforehand to tell them what chair groupings were needed so bubbles could sit together. They family didnt tell them any, so it was all single seating.

The funeral home can end up being fined and shut down if they allow people to move chairs. The family sister organise the bubbles being grouped together, the home assumed there were no group households and they had to enforce the rules to save their business.

@Crunchymum

My mum is going to be cremated soon, after a very sudden death last month, and whilst the celebrant has told us he won't enforce social distancing (so I can comfort my poor dad) we will all have to wear masks.

The kicker is the fact we cannot have any kind of commemoration after the service due to the rule of 6. Me, my DP and my kids make 6 (this doesn't include my 3 siblings and their partners and kids which takes us to about 15 people )

I know everyone has to make sacrifices and everyone has to play their part but a funeral is pretty much the only event you cannor delay or postpone.

Having to chose which members of our bereaved family can stay with dad after his wife's funeral seems so unfair. We want to be together, my mum would have wanted us to be together but we can't be.

My friend died recently and we all went back to his parents house after the funeral (which we stood outside to watch on our phones).

I don't think they could have coped just going home alone.

These are circumstances where you have to make your own choices. Nobody is going to phone the police if you have a family gathering in a private home after a funeral.

Some people just blindly follow rules dont they. So many people love authoritarianism and beg for more - saves them thinking for themselves.

But the thing that most people are tired of is there is no end game. Humanity has NEVER successfully made a effective vaccine for any of the coronavirus' so how long do we wait ? At what point does existing Just to stay alive become unacceptable - it has for many of us already.

*didnt not sister!!

Sadly I don't think this applies to us in England.

just looked this up - seems you can have up to 30 for the service but are bound by the normal limits for the after do - that's really terrible.

Could you all book tables in the same place?

Personally, i'd ignore and do something, even if it's just meeting at an outdoor quiet spot and raising a toast and taking turns to speak to each other.

@thenightsky if it's the one I'm thinking of, it is in the UK, and the police decided to let it go ahead because they couldn't guarantee people wouldn't gather anyway and if they gave permission they would know what was happening. It was a family who historically have little respect for the law I believe (euphemism there).

The funeral home can end up being fined and shut down if they allow people to move chairs.

At BiL's they had set them out in twos and threes and single chairs but said they could be moved to accommodate whatever the groups were, but they had to do the moving on request.

As I say, I can't fault the staff themselves, it's the whole rules that are shit.