When did Think become Fink.

[WokenUpEarly]

Genuine question, taking out any speech issues, when did Think become Fink?
Throw become Frow?
Etc

I really wonder if this thread would be going the same way if the accent being mocked - and it is an accent, and it makes you sound a bit stupid to deny it - was anything other than a southern estuary one. For some reason, even though it's a strongly working class accent, it seems to be considered fine to mock by people who would consider it very not ok to mock, say, a Barnsley or a Northern Irish accent.

Yep. I'm in my 40s in a professional job that contributes to all of your lives and yet because I can't pronounce th I am being told I sound thick, lazy, doing it deliberately to sound like someone famous, etc etc.

What a horrible thread.

The one that annoys me is
“I can’t be asked”

Instead of
“I can’t be arsed”

I've trained myself out of saying it because it was made pretty clear to me early on in my academic career that my traces of an Essex accent were a shameful thing I should hide, often by very right-on people who went on earnestly about why it could be that academia wasn't more diverse. But if I'm drunk it still slips out, presumably because then I lose my PhD and become stupid.

@Hardbackwriter

I really wonder if this thread would be going the same way if the accent being mocked - and it is an accent, and it makes you sound a bit stupid to deny it - was anything other than a southern estuary one. For some reason, even though it's a strongly working class accent, it seems to be considered fine to mock by people who would consider it very not ok to mock, say, a Barnsley or a Northern Irish accent.

You've got it

‘I really wonder if this thread would be going the same way if the accent being mocked - and it is an accent, and it makes you sound a bit stupid to deny it - was anything other than a southern estuary one. For some reason, even though it's a strongly working class accent, it seems to be considered fine to mock by people who would consider it very not ok to mock, say, a Barnsley or a Northern Irish accent.’

This. Apparently South Eastern people especially Londoners are always wrong.

My accent changes depending on where I am.

I'm abroad at minute and when I'm at work here I speak "properly". Pop me back amongst my people in Norf Landan and I revert.

I also seem to absorb accents without meaning to and will often develop a Mancunian twang if I don't check myself. I like accents.

People who use 'f' instead of 'th' also say 'haitch' instead of 'aitch'. Estuary English, init.

Sorry but I agree it's lazy speech and sounds uneducated.

I've noticed general standards slipping. There is a BBC reported that has just started who has a terrible accent. What happened to striving and us looking up to people on TV.

Your response demonstrates someone with poor education and shows low tolerance.

Only the case in Estuary English.

Not in our house! DS is being brought up to pronounce his t’s, th’s and g’s!

MountainDweller
"My Irish friends all use 'bring' instead of 'take'. ('Will I bring ye shopping on T'ursday?'). I'm not sure if they use take instead of bring... must pay more attention. I find it quirky with an Irish accent but annoying with an English one grin"

Bring vs take is a bugbear of mine, but why is that example incorrect? In my head it wouldn't be correct to use take in that sentence if the subject is the person speaking, but I may be wrong! To me, it means "Will I bring (with me) groceries for you on Thursday?"
What would you say? Or would you just use a totally different sentence?

"People who use 'f' instead of 'th' also say 'haitch' instead of 'aitch'. Estuary English, init."

I'm going to get the popcorn out for this one...

But what accent is it?

I'm in the North and I hear it. It doesn't seem to be a regional accent. Is it just a habit or a trend or, as PP suggested, children are no longer taught to speak properly.

Regional. I pronounce TH as F, or ING either as K, or i just drop the G from the end, so it becomes IN (eg nothink, or nothin).
Was born and lived in east London until 2013. Have lived in Liverpool since but still pronounce them as above

@Marmitecrackers

Sorry but I agree it's lazy speech and sounds uneducated.

I've noticed general standards slipping. There is a BBC reported that has just started who has a terrible accent. What happened to striving and us looking up to people on TV.

I'd love to know who you mean. MN always confuses the use of RP and being intelligent and educated. I guess you'd be shocked at how academics and the gentry spoke in the 17th century for example.

Yes the way one speaks is not necessarily representative of their eduction or intelligence but it's a fact of life that (rightly lets wrongly) we judge people on all sorts of things.

@Vello

Gotten was the earlier past participle and remains in numerous dialects across the country. As with a lot of these things, you are encountering it more now as you are encountering the real/unedited written expressions of dialects online, rather than everything being edited into Standard English through published texts.

You can see the trace of it in Standard English with begotten and forgotten, the past participles of forget and beget.

This post bears repeating - again, and again, and again.

The narrow-mindedness and snobbery about everything beyond so-called 'standard' English English on here never fails to blow my mind.

There is a BBC reported that has just started who has a terrible accent. What happened to striving and us looking up to people on TV.

What constitutes a 'terrible accent' according to you? And why would you feel the need to look up to people on tv? Do you regard tv personalities as the pinnacle of society, deserving of reverence? Many are quite the opposite, but not because of their accents! Do you think they ought only to represent or appeal to viewers with RP accents? Very bizarre. And I say that as someone with a pretty much RP accent myself.

@SmartPinkShoes

MountainDweller "My Irish friends all use 'bring' instead of 'take'. ('Will I bring ye shopping on T'ursday?'). I'm not sure if they use take instead of bring... must pay more attention. I find it quirky with an Irish accent but annoying with an English one grin"

Bring vs take is a bugbear of mine, but why is that example incorrect? In my head it wouldn't be correct to use take in that sentence if the subject is the person speaking, but I may be wrong! To me, it means "Will I bring (with me) groceries for you on Thursday?"
What would you say? Or would you just use a totally different sentence?

AIUI (I'm not Irish), it's simply using 'bring' where British English would use 'take'. So 'Shall I take you shopping on Thursday?' would be the ('standard') British English rendering of that sentence. I'm guessing it's perhaps an influence from Irish. There are other languages (German being the one I know) that have the same word, namely 'bring', covering both 'bring' and 'take' in that sense.

My ds is high school age and had always struggled with the th sound.

I have always pronounced it correctly and so does everyone else in our family so I find it difficult to understand why ds finds it difficult.

I think he can't hear the difference between f and th also may physically finds it hard. He used to always say le instead of the. So each therapists were not interested in him. I just keep saying the words correctly back to him ☹️

@WokenUpEarly I explained pages ago why some people can’t physically hear the difference.

Sorry but I agree it's lazy speech and sounds uneducated

Someone explained upthread that it was first noted in the late 18th century. That is pretty bloody old. It might have something to do with immigration given that th is a rare and weird sound linguistically. It’s not just some uneducated young people trying to be cool. What makes BBC English more legitimate than an Estuary accent? (Hint: literally nothing)

@Marmitecrackers

Sorry but I agree it's lazy speech and sounds uneducated.

I've noticed general standards slipping. There is a BBC reported that has just started who has a terrible accent. What happened to striving and us looking up to people on TV.

Sorry but you sound like the kind of pathetic and laughable petty snob who is very concerned about striving and looking up because you've never actually achieved anything.

Was it ok to say that, too, because I said 'sorry' at the beginning?