DS been asked to leave school due to low CAT score.

[omgitcantbetrue]

Just had a meeting with DS Prep school and I'm feeling so worried and anxious for DS.

He scored 92 average on the CAT test.
The teacher gently informed me this means he'll not manage to achieve above a C grade in any subject at GCSE. He's only in year 5, and I'm amazed they can make such predictions.
I was then informed that it's in his best interest to transition to a more gentle secondary school.
I don't know what I want really. Advice from parents in a similar position?
Are her life prospects totally limited? With C's only I'm assumings he'll never go to University. Which is fine. I'm worried for his prospects.
Do children who score 92 ever improve? How below average is this?
Thanks for reading

With C's only I'm assumings he'll never go to University.

@omgitcantbetrue Not necessarily. There's a wide range of universities these days, something for everyone. And some people are slow starters, their early performance doesn't necessarily reflect their outcomes.

Don't feel bad about the dyslexia- you having it probably meant he got help sooner than he otherwise would've, because you are informed about it. Lots of people with dyslexia don't have a parent with it, and they might not get help as quickly.

I don't think this school is the one for him, they aren't going to be sympathetic/supportive to him.

You could shop around and directly ask schools if they'll help raise his score. You could also consider getting some private tuition on top- it might well be worth it.

Not sure if results were spikey.
I was nervous and a lot just went over my head. I just scribbled down 92 percent.
I can't tell you how inspiring it is to hear about your children achieving so much, despite their wobbly starts. It makes me feel that we've been short changed. Literally.He's such a nice gentle person, and presenting to him appropriately is so important. I don't want him feeling less than, or not good enough.
Now it's all about him. I've got to separate my bad feelings/ ANGER with them from what's in DS best interest.
If they had advertised as a hot house, we simply wouldn't have been there. I genuinely was under the impression it was mildly selective, so there is a degree of bad feeling on my behalf.
If it's genuinely disruptive to change schools now. I'd allow him to stay. Maybe I let him stay till the start of year 6. I just want what's best for him.

And I agree that there is a dis-connect between what people paying for selective education want and what they want for their individual child.

People want selective schools to exist because they want their child to learn with clever children and have the chance to get the very highest grades. However, they don’t like it when their child isn’t in that by-nature small group of students and are suddenly excluded. They only like it when it includes their child and excludes some other children. Some have to be excluded for it to be actually selective if course. If it were open to all, it loses its appeal to lots of people.

It’s hard at a young age, but in a system which might select at 7+, those already there at 4 face the risk if not being able to continue beyond ore-Prep or infants. When the system selects at 11+ children at age 9 or 10 face being told they can’t be recommended to the senior school or they take the exams at 10 and simply don’t pass. And at 16 students face being told their GCSEs aren’t good enough to study A Levels. In state Comp schools this Only happens at 16 when students are allowed/not allowed to do A Levels based on GCSE results, but in the private sector it happens at every level. People want it to be exclusive and not open to all....but they don’t like it when it’s their child who isn’t invited onto the next stage.

Most Preps will not ask a child in Yr5 to leave now. They might tell the parents they can not recommend them to the senior school that is attached or that if there is an exam, they probably won’t pass. It is usually the parents who choose to remove their child rather than the school tells them to. They frequently feel harshly or unfairly treated even though they knew this was always a possibility, although some put their fingers in their ears to the possibility or decide it could never happen to them. In lots of ways it is a harsh system and it is parents who choose it, not the children themselves. It’s certainly something to consider when choosing Preps.

Lots of people like a non-attached Prep for this reason...it won’t just prepare for a certain selective school that not everyone will be suited to, but a range of Seniors at different levels so there is something suitable for all (although even then lots of parents don’t like the recommendation the Prep gives them)!!

I am dyslexic and so is my daughter. I went to a private school where they constantly tried to get rid of me, traditional education did not agree with me. In the end my Dad got my IQ tested - it was extremely high and the results were sent to the school!! Once I left school I found my own way and have not looked back, I have a great job with a top Charity. With my daughter In primary school she was in the lower third of the class, however how at secondary school (not private) she has passed all her GCSE's, now doing A Levels and has very high predictions and will go to university. Don't worry - just find the right supportive environment.

We had CATs done at secondary school. I got an average score because my back was hurting and no one told me they were important. So I just whizzed through this quick test none the wiser.
They were used to predict our GCSEs and I was predicted very mediocre results. I actually got top results (A or above), higher than all the predictions. I didn’t work particularly hard.
I was much older than your son when we did CATs and they were still unreliable.
Honestly, the school’s attitude would make me think they weren’t very good educators. The value add must be terrible. Find a school that is invested in helping each child achieve their potential. Don’t let these frankly ludicrous predictions loom for you or your son. There are some fantastic school (including specialist Dyslexia schools). You are paying for the status symbol at the moment rather than any improvement on a state education. Private education should give an advantage.

Where in the country are you op? How much longer is it at the current prep? I see it’s a prep attached to a senior school, I always think these are not the best places as they are focussed on moulding kids into what their own senior school wants and pushing parents to that ‘option’. My dc’s prep was excellent, not affiliated with any senior school and sends children to 60 plus destinations every year, they get to know your child and guide you towards the right setting for them, be that a kings scholarship at Eton or be it bedales for example, If it’s not too late, I’d look for someone independent. pS I know bedales is marmite but I know at least one very dyslexic child who has really thrived there.

I wouldn't give a CAT attainment at Year 5 any credibility at all. My DD was awarded just above average CAT at age 11. She achieved 11 A*s at GCSE, 3 As and was awarded a 1st class honours degree this year. There was one teacher at the school she was in that's didn't even open her DDs results as they were meaningless at that age. So yes - your DS can move way up from the level get are predicting as long as he has the motivation to achieve.

The school sounds AWFUL, this makes me really angry. Just wanted to say I’m a vet and there were maybe 3 or 4 people in my year who were dyslexic- all still extremely bright, I think they may have got extra time in exams (which is the only reason I even knew). The ones I’m still in touch with are really successful in their careers. Please change schools for your DS’s sake, the attitude of your school is just terrible. If he ISN’T particularly academic then it’s not like that’s a problem, there’s loads of other things he can do, and he’ll probably be happier than some of the children of pushy parents that only care about grades grades grades. Ugh, so annoyed on your behalf.

If you are anywhere south east way, look at windlesham House, if he is only year 5 then there is loads of time for him to find his feet, some kids literally do one year

Sounds like they are worried about sats? if they do them at his school. Not the right school regardless. However, no way should any child be written off in year 5, regardless of what "data" says.

I too think this is the wrong school for him. They have no intention to support him and help him with his dyslexia. Which from an independent school is crap imo.

I don’t know about CAT score but I can tell you about my ds.
He was a year behind in Y1, didn’t do great at his SATs at the end of Y2. He sort of improved going year after year but finished primary school just just scrapping his Y6 SATS, after many intensive 1-1 work from the school (they were very hot on supporting all the children, esp those who were struggling to get at least the ‘minimum’ level’).
According to his results, he was told he would get at most a level 4 in English (so just scrapping again) at GCSE. (Same with dc1). Maths were ‘ok ish’ which was still better than the previous SATS.

Dc1 did his GCSE last year. He got a level 7.
Dc2 is going to sit his GCSE this year. He is forecast to get at least a 6, if not a 7.
He is also predicted an 8 in maths and in sciences.

Do NOT rely on those results to write your child off. The teachers certainly seem to think that they can rely on them as a measure of how well a child will do. It doesn’t work.
What your dc needs is appropriate support for his dyslexia. This will make a world of difference to him (we did a lot of work with Dc2 too all throughout primary). And that means finding a better school because this one is crap tbh.

Having worked in a hyper pressured school, regardless of the results, I would find him another school. Those schools are brilliant for kids in the top Band where learning comes naturally, but I've seen kids pushed to breaking point and eating disorders. You need to find somewhere that will help him thrive,with teachers who know how to differentiate effectively, support is on hand and you have a senco that cares. I would move him sooner rather than later because then he can make friends with people he will potentially be going to secondary school with

We don’t even share CATS scored with the students or kids, it’s just a baseline for us teachers, we have to use them to create a seating plan in year 7 as well.

92 is not below average, it is within the average bracket, albeit towards the lower end of average. 100 is bang average and the broadly average range is 90 to 110. Howevwr, this is just in numerical reasoning and literacy, and lots of rhings can impact that. DC can go to uni wirh Cs at GCSE, and there are lots of non academic careers also. Don't despair.

To those justifying the school - there is the world of difference between telling a parent that on the results their DC will not be accepted into the attached senior school and telling a parent that their 9 year old will not achieve at GCSE.

The first is that there is a mismatch between the child and the senior school. The second basically says the child is not clever enough, when in fact it may be that the school is not interested in providing the right support.

I meant students or parents/carers

@omgitcantbetrue

Not sure if results were spikey. I was nervous and a lot just went over my head. I just scribbled down 92 percent. I can't tell you how inspiring it is to hear about your children achieving so much, despite their wobbly starts. It makes me feel that we've been short changed. Literally.He's such a nice gentle person, and presenting to him appropriately is so important. I don't want him feeling less than, or not good enough. Now it's all about him. I've got to separate my bad feelings/ ANGER with them from what's in DS best interest. If they had advertised as a hot house, we simply wouldn't have been there. I genuinely was under the impression it was mildly selective, so there is a degree of bad feeling on my behalf. If it's genuinely disruptive to change schools now. I'd allow him to stay. Maybe I let him stay till the start of year 6. I just want what's best for him.

It sounds to me as if this school is a feeder into a highly academic senior school and they are saying to you that this is not the best scenario for him . Why would you want to put him through the stress of a senior school like that? They could be doing you and him a favour . My H's two children describe this scenario exactly - one who went through the prep and sailed through a highly competitive academic private and the other who did not go into the same senior due to its demands. They are both achieving in their own different ways.

It’s the school OP. The school we go to, the average is 110-120 which is crazy.

I’m so sorry your son has been treated this way - but the finding of a gentler school who are not pushy sounds like a better fit for you ds. Good luck.

Try to see this in a positive light, OP. The school is effectively telling you that it's crap at teaching, and can only achieve decent results with the kind of children who will do well in any environment. Is that really the kind of education you want for your child? Is it really worth paying for?

No, your son deserves much better.

His future cannot be predicted by a single test taken at the age of 9. It's too early to know how he will do in his GCSEs. The only thing that is certain at this point is that he needs to be in a supportive and nurturing environment where the teachers are committed to unlocking his potential, whatever that may turn out to be.

A CAT score on its own might have limited value, but few schools would have this conversation purely based on one CAT score.

Op, as you say, a lot of the meeting went over your head. It’s not surprising as it all felt a bit of a shock to you it seems and so you struggled to absorb it all.

So now you can make a list if Qs and return to the school next week and ask them all and get clarification with a clear head. It might be they have failed him or are just trying to push him out now and doing it without giving you any warning that there have been some difficulties. That would be wrong.....but honestly, most schools won’t do that.

An open, non-defensive conversation is what you need now to get the info you need and to make sensible next steps.
You could request the meeting and send a list if Qs you’d like to discuss in advance so they have a chance to gather the info and make the meeting as productive for you as possible.

I think it’s more about senior choices really. This has happened now because there’s an attached Senior that the school think Ops son isn’t suited to. This could well be the case. It isn’t wrong for a school to tell a parent this and it doesn’t make them uncaring or writing him him off. It might feel like this, but it doesn’t mean those things are always the case.

@Allington

To those justifying the school - there is the world of difference between telling a parent that on the results their DC will not be accepted into the attached senior school and telling a parent that their 9 year old will not achieve at GCSE.

The first is that there is a mismatch between the child and the senior school. The second basically says the child is not clever enough, when in fact it may be that the school is not interested in providing the right support.

They didn't say he will not achieve - they said he can expect Cs which is a Standard Pass .

My DS is dyslexic too, OP.

A few things which might be of practical benefit. One is - are you relying on the school's assessment of his dyslexia, or have you had a private ed psych report done? I recommend the latter, because as well as giving a full breakdown of his dyslexic traits (working memory, processing speed, etc.), they will also give you an assessment of his overall cognitive performance. My DS is up in the high 90s for cognitive ability and down in the low 10s for some of the reading-specific tests! It is useful to have an idea of just how big a mismatch between cognitive abilities and reading/writing disabilities you're dealing with here.

Second - if you want to stay in the private sector, check around for the best SEN provision. One of the big private schools round my way has an excellent SEN department, and in fact many parents send children with dyslexia there to get specialist support. I think this is quite unusual in the private sector (most want "easy wins" to keep their GCSE and A level grades high, to keep attracting students), but this type of school does exist. We thought seriously about pooling all the family money to send DS there, but in the end he was unhappy with leaving an established friendship group, so we kept him where he was, and he's now at an excellent state secondary, again with good SEN support.

Finally CAT scores are funny things. DS bombed his SATs, because the primary would not give him extra time (at primary, it's at the discretion of the school) even though his ed psych had recommended it. I hate the fact that these are then used to predict target grades at GCSE - fortunately at a half-way decent school teachers know the shortcomings of these scores and will take them with a large pinch of salt.

If you can lay hands on a copy, today's Times has an excellent article on people with dyslexia who've succeeded in their chosen career path, pointing out that it's one of these cognitive differences which actually comes with a host of "strengths" (although everyone normally thinks in terms of the problems it causes). Often people with dyslexia are very gifted at visual things, whether that's art and design (Norman Foster is dyslexic) or science (astrophysicist Maggie Aderin Pocock is one of the people profiled in today's Times article). They often end up developing excellent memory skills, because they have to! (DS's piano teacher is always amazed at his ability to memorise music).

This sounds like you are in London. Because london is the only place that you are told that even 135+ CATs score is not that good, we were told this for my DD. Don't ignore but move your child to a different school or seek extra assistance for dyslexia which Preps offer for an extra minimal payment and extra time for any CATs tests and all other tests. The child is entitled to this. Do not wait until 11+ the atmosphere is more brutal then. 92 is low but not detrimentally so and I certainly wouldn't evaluate it as a prediction of GCSE's. Many circumstances influence children, it could be that he just had a bad day, or slept less, was tired etc. A single exam cannot ascertain your child's abilities.

Having said that, if I heard that from a teacher equalled with the dismissive tone (this is how I interpreted it) I would move my child to a different school ASAP. It is always better to be a big fish in a smaller pond than a little fish in a bigger one.

I was "thick as shit" in Y5, teachers didn't care about or notice me. I was diagnosed with dyslexia at uni. Straight after my BSc I did two doctorates (PhD; DClinPsy) back to back.

I'd move you'd kid, purely because the don't like him.

I would move him. I would be worried over the next 2 years he’ll just be written off by the school and he won’t progress.

Where in the country are you? I am sure people can give some recommendations for schools with good dyslexia provision.