To not be ok with choosing a school for dd sight unseen?

[newwnamme]

Dd 3 is due to start school sept 21. There are a few local possibilities. We know noone who attends any of them and have no knowledge beyond what's on their websites. I called today to ask what is happening with the admissions process this year. Apparently a decision has been made today that no visits will take place. Instead, a 'virtual tour' will be available on the school website.

Am I being unreasonable to think there is no way I would enrol my child in a school which I have never stepped foot inside, never met a member of the staff, had a chance to observe the atmosphere there or anything else? I do get that this is an unusual year. But that does nothing to make me feel better about what is on offer.

I am strongly considering homeschooling, at least as an interim measure. What would you do in this situation?

You prob won't get much less from a virtual tour and calling up and speaking to them
I assume tour will consist of head speech and details about school and any questions you could email in or ring and chat
When you physically go there its not that different as you don't always go during school hours just after and speeches are pre planned etc
We have just had to do a virtual open college evening for ds which was harder as couldn't speak to each subject face to face but did have live chat and also telephone calls so you could speak in person, maybe the school would run like that which makes it a little more personal
Maybe ask child minder if she has any idea as if she has children will of gone through them plus various children she may of looked after

@newwnamme

Why do people keep pointing out that everyone is in the same situation? Isnt that rather an obvious statement? It remains my decision to make for my child.

It would be more interesting to hear whether you would accept those terms or (given the option) explore the alternatives and why.

I wouldn't have been happy to accept that. Choosing a school is an important process, visiting with your child, them having a 'taster', meeting teachers, being interviewed and asking questions, etc.

However I honestly don't know what you can do at the moment; what is usually done is just not happening.

You could try facebook pages for the localities, ask about the schools and see what parents have to say about them.

Good luck.

I've applied for Primary schools three times without visiting, due to moving. First two were easy... There was one school to chose from so it was take it or leave it. (British schools abroad). Last one was in UK... And it was the only one with a space in DDs year. We had to appeal for other DD.
What I've learnt over 3 schools is that a lot of things are very similar in all of them. There's excellent teachers, good teachers, and those who are struggling. The children vary. The parents vary. Bigger schools have more extra curricular... But it doesn't mean your child can do them all. Smaller schools have less choice, but more chance of doing something you want.

We are currently doing it for Secondary, and my brain feels frazzled by analysing video tours and statistics... But a lot of info we need is online. But you don't get the feel.

Good luck. It's a scary unknown usually, but even more so this year. Hopefully by summer they will be able to do new parents evenings.

Also be prepared you might choose a school and not get it
But really what do you expect them to do have hundreds extra walking around
If your child is 3 still now are they going to be just 4 when they start , as i thought kids didn't have to start until term they are 5 or similar ?? Could be wrong but if thats still case could you hold of a few months and apply later as hopefully by then visits may be back
But again if a popular over subscribed school you may miss out in a place if you apply late

I completely understand how you feel as I felt exactly the same way last year. My son started reception this September, and in usual circumstances no way would I have wanted to choose his school without going to open days. There were 3 options for us and we went to look round all 3 (tbh we already had a very strong preference for 1 just from the website, but still went to all 3 with an open mind). After that it wasn't even a decision really, we knew 100% we were right with our initial preference and that school was where we wanted him to go.

However if it was this year then I would completely understand why open days can not happen, and would do the virtual tours and look at websites to get the best impressions I could. It's not idea but the whole situation worldwide isn't ideal at all. We all have to make the best of the extremely difficult and uncertain circumstances at the moment unfortunately.

@Whitestick

Nothing you have posted has changed my view of your entitlement. You haven't posted to ask "how do I get a feel for which school to choose given they understandably can't have open days". You are ignoring the health and safety of the human beings, young and old, already in that school. You can't see past your own nose, can you?

No... I have posted to ask whether people have or would consider alternatives to sending their child to a mainstream state school who are only providing online information to prospective parents in 2021. I have asked (and have received some valuable comments on) whether it is unreasonable to consider such a plan in view of the circumstances.

I don't know how much clearer I can make it? I'm not ignoring any health and safety issues whatsoever. It has precisely nothing to do with health and safety.

I do hope that you're not a teacher, because your reading comprehension skills are not up to much.

@Notfeelinggreattoday

Also be prepared you might choose a school and not get it But really what do you expect them to do have hundreds extra walking around If your child is 3 still now are they going to be just 4 when they start , as i thought kids didn't have to start until term they are 5 or similar ?? Could be wrong but if thats still case could you hold of a few months and apply later as hopefully by then visits may be back But again if a popular over subscribed school you may miss out in a place if you apply late

Thank you for this suggestion. Holding off for a deferred start is definitely an option I will be looking into. A bit of breathing space to let all the dust settle from covid would be a very good thing I think.

If you can hold off a year I absolutely would. It's such hard going for the summer borns and the research and my own bitter experience says they don't really ever catch up. Our youngest is starting next year and if I had the option to defer I absolutely would be.

Why is it not an option for you, if you dont mind my asking @EachPeachPearSums?

I have a friend who teaches in a private prep school and they are only offering an online open day so it is definitely not only state schools who are doing this. Some private schools may be able to offer out of hours tours because they employ their own cleaners and can influence their hours, offer cash incentives to come in at weekends or late evenings etc, which may not be an option for your typical state primary. It is a very difficult situation for everyone.
I do empathise with you though OP. My DS has been trying to pick a University without being able to visit and we have more or less decided he should take a gap year and hope he can actually go to places for a look in the Summer. I disagree with those who say that you can get nearly as good a feel for somewhere with a virtual tour - that certainly hasn't been our experience. I think open days are a bit "fake" at the best of times as obviously the institution can, to a degree, decide what it does and doesn't want you to see, but that is even easier for them if you are not actually there, especially if things are pre recorded and thus potentially carefully edited. In my experience you do get more of a sense of what somewhere is genuinely like if you are actually there and get to ask questions, especially if you can visit on a normal day.
But the fact is, currently we can't so we have to make the best of a bad situation. So, you could effectively do the same as us and defer the decision til you can visit - remember your child doesn't need to be in full time education until the term after their 5th birthday so depending on when their birthday is it might buy you some more time. I think you would still have to apply at the normal time but you potentially could then request deferred entry and look around in the meanwhile.
One thing to remember is that a decision made now is not set in stone. I know it probably feels that the decision you make now will affect your child for life (I certainly felt that way!) but there is room for manoeuvre. Lots of people move their children during the primary years for all kinds of reasons. Particularly as you have said that most of the schools in your area are under subscribed, if you pick somewhere but later feel you have made a mistake you can move and it sounds like it should be relatively straightforward in your case. So I think my inclination would probably be to try to gather what information you can, submit an application based on your best assessment at the time, but be prepared to move if when term starts you feel that its not the right place. And remember that its possible to pick the wrong place even if you can visit everywhere, especially when it is your first child and you are less sure what you are looking for, what questions to ask etc. We misjudged things with our first and ended up moving, but were much more confident about our decisions with subsequent children.
Its a tough call. All you can do is do your best, and be open to the possibility that you may need to change your mind later if things don't turn out the way you hoped. Good luck!

You don't think it's a good idea to ask your childminder? There are other school age parents there too you could ask?

Having homeschooled during lockdown I would say do your research if that's an option you are considering. I wouldn't want to do it for all the tea in China! And neither would my children.

I think YABU. Not having seen the school in person isn't a huge difference from having seen it. It plays to your emotions more than it provides great decision making information. Even if you visit the information you have would still be incomplete and subject to bias. Your DC is protected far more by the teacher training and safeguarding procedures that are an integral part of the system of education than by your visiting the school.

Giving it a go and seeing how that works out has very little extra risk attached and still has a huge amount of potential benefit despite restrictions on parents visiting. Unless you were thinking of homeschooling and have been planning to do so for sometime, switching to homeschooling at the last minute just because you can't visit a school in person is unlikely to be in the best interests of your child.

I understand wanting to meet teachers, the relationship between the school and parents has potential to magnify the benefits of schooling. Perhaps you could email and see if any teachers from the class/year your DC will be attending could speak with you over Facetime or something.

I’m terms of your specific question, I’d personally take any of the reception places rather than home school. My summer born was more than ready this year and is thriving on the social interaction. I’m sure I could home school and reach a higher academic level but I suspect it would be painful for us both and not as fun (aside from the practicalities of not working). My daughter is desperate to please her teachers and is so enthusiastic about learning. The themes and the effort that the teachers have gone to are fabulous.

The school my son went to was our local, we figured he had to go some where so I voted then on polling day and we thought it looked ok so he went.

Not sure what talking to them would have done really what criteria would we have had to not send him? sure not all schools are the same but as we did not live an caravan that can be moved then he had to go to school somewhere, DH and I both went to our local school just like our parents before us

It is modern times that seems there has to be additional thought into every single decision that is ever made with everything.

Same boat, right down to lots of local ok-ish schools. It's completely fucking horrible isn't it? Such a big decision and you can't go and see where you'll be sending your kid. I wouldn't take a dog to a kennel for a week without asking to see them but a child in school for 7 years? "Well we have a lovely PowerPoint...!" 🤦

We are currently abroad. There's no option of visiting state primary schools here in general. It's a completely alien concept. Children just get assigned to their catchment school and that's the end of it. Schools aren't really that different. Have a think, do you prefer a bigger one or a smaller one? Do you need wraparound care or are you ok with school hours? You can even move your child in the UK if you feel after a while that it isn't the right one for you. You aren't locked into having your child stay at the school for 7 years, especially if the schools in the area tend to be under subscribed.

Our choice in the UK would probably have been the local (very small) village primary (Ofsted "requires improvement" at the time but "good" nowadays), followed by the independent boys' school in the city from Year 3 onwards and then perhaps somewhere else for secondary.

If you want choice where we live now, you go private. It doesn't mean that DS will stay with it all the way through, either. He might switch to our local state secondary/grammar school when he's old enough...or he might stay at his current school.

Don't get too bogged down by the idea that you have to sign up for something permanent right now and have ow way of getting out of it later.

Our private school has done a virtual open day. They have videos online and did video conferences with various people throughout the day that parents could attend. It was very much similar to a normal open day...you just couldn't visit the building (which wouldn't have had any kids in anyway, since open days take place on a weekend).

I think you can get a feel for a school by having a look online. Read their behaviour policy. Is it in line with what you are looking for or are you perhaps getting the impression of reading the guidelines for a high security prison?

I didn’t look round DSs school before he started, he is in Year 2 now. It was our second choice school. They did offer tours but as DH and I are both teachers we struggled to attend and couldn’t make it work with that school.

To be honest I can’t say that it bothered me. As a primary school teacher I tend to think that the vast majority of schools are very similar, regardless of their OFSTED rating. Some RI schools are better than good or outstanding schools as they are working very hard on school improvement. Some outstanding schools haven’t been inspected in years (my DC school hasn’t been for over 10 years).

Surely a big part of your decision will need to be where your childminder picks up from?

Look at it another way, the schools are showing they are doing everything they can in order to keep staff and pupils safe by not having extra visitors in and are putting other measures in to help you get the information.

I get it’s shit, Ds starts secondary school in September and I have the added issues of the fact he is disabled so we need to really know they can meet his needs but it is what it is and we just have to do the best we can in a rubbish time

@newwnamme

You should call and ask your local
Schools if they accept differed children. The 2 near me do, but they have to miss reception and go straight into year 1

As a primary school teacher I tend to think that the vast majority of schools are very similar, regardless of their OFSTED rating

Possibly where you are and teach. Here, there are amazing ones and ones people wouldn’t want to send their dogs to!!!

You realise in Scotland and many, if not most, countries in Europe, kids go to their catchment school? I didn’t go inside my DC’s primary school until the first parents’ night. Mountain, molehill.

You'd hate my school op. We don't ever do open days or tours or anything. Village school (not UK) , come if you want don't if you don't. We have a steady intake of around 20 per year and don't go looking for more.

I understand how you feel OP. I knew which school I wanted only after the visit, it's hard to describe but it just felt like a home, somewhere safe and warm and friendly. Estyn (in Wales) do mention this in their report but it's not the same as feeling it yourself. That feeling was far more important to me than results etc.

I would perhaps consider deferring a year and seeing if they can do visits next autumn.

@AgentProvocateur

But that’s not the case for OP and myself so it’s irrelevant.

It is an important decision to me, my son has an IEP at preschool so getting it right it important. He’ll thrive in certain environments and sink in others. Also, our outstanding school locally is majority all white, the one where 86% are BAME students is requires improvement.
Do I want my son to go to the outstanding one where he’ll be the minority? Or shall I go with the required improvement school where he will not be the minority.... I wanted to look around and get a few for the schools ethos. Does the white school appear to celebrate diversity? Is the black child playing with other kids or sitting alone? Eating lunch alone? Those things matter to me and should be my Informed decision to make .

Thanks for all the comments. Lots of food for thought.

Our childminder works with a number of assistants and picks up from 2/3 schools. I will certainly ask for her opinion. We will certainly watch the tours, and hopefully some chances to actually speak with the head or other members of staff will be forthcoming - this was not offered or mentioned yesterday and would make a useful addition to the video tour.

I have been thinking about homeschooling prior to this, for a few reasons. The main one being I have little confidence that any kind of stability will have returned to school life by 2021 intake and some of the reports on here from teachers and parents have made for depressing reading. It's not what I want for my kid. But there are lots of questions that would need answering before I could be certain homeschooling would be the better choice.

The fact of our all being in the same boat etc etc is neither here nor there. Same applies for everyone who just chose the nearest / had to / lives somewhere where you can't. That's great that you were happy with that but those aren't the norms or standards here.

Solidarity to everyone facing the same - I hope you manage to make a decision you're happy with.