To not be ok with choosing a school for dd sight unseen?

[newwnamme]

Dd 3 is due to start school sept 21. There are a few local possibilities. We know noone who attends any of them and have no knowledge beyond what's on their websites. I called today to ask what is happening with the admissions process this year. Apparently a decision has been made today that no visits will take place. Instead, a 'virtual tour' will be available on the school website.

Am I being unreasonable to think there is no way I would enrol my child in a school which I have never stepped foot inside, never met a member of the staff, had a chance to observe the atmosphere there or anything else? I do get that this is an unusual year. But that does nothing to make me feel better about what is on offer.

I am strongly considering homeschooling, at least as an interim measure. What would you do in this situation?

In some areas if you want a local school you don't have a "choice" and in some areas they still have catchment so you go to the school according to where you live...

I really wouldn't base my choice on whether a school is doing in person tours. If anything, the ones most likely to may be the ones which are under-subscribed and more interested in selling themselves than in protecting their staff and students - not values I'd prioritise, personally. (I'm not saying this is true in all cases.)

OP, it sounds like you have other reasons for taking an interest in homeschooling, in which case fair enough. But on your concern about what the school experience is like at the moment, I honestly wouldn't be too deterred by that. Both my kids (one primary, one secondary) are so, so happy to be back at school, in spite of all the restrictions. The difference from lockdown is immense. And watching the little Reception kids come bouncing out at the end of the day is lovely to see - the school are still managing to give them a great experience, in spite of everything.

Another option I'd like to see is a virtual session where you join a zoom call with the head and some of the teaching team and they do an intro talk and allow q&a.
This would at least allow you more chance to interact and ask questions than just watching a virtual tour video. Also other parents may ask questions I haven't thought of.

Honestly don’t discount social media. It isn’t perfect but I’ve seen posts from someone choosing between two local schools on our village page and she got 40 odd informative and helpful posts.

Other things that might give a flavour- what is the PTA like? Are parents engaged in the school, what provision is there for wrap around care? What resources are on the school’s websites? Can you see the curriculum, timetable etc? Does the school engage in external events, competitions, other enrichment etc?

What @Brightbluebell says, with three in school and as an ex teacher myself I’d be more concerned that a school was showing people around and adding to the risk of bubbles having to close and pupils missing out on valuable time in school. I appreciate it’s difficult but you don’t seem happy with anyone’s suggestions either.

Your options are to choose a different school you can look round (if there are any doing tours), home school, go by the virtual tour or ask on MN local boards if you can't ask in real life.
Bear in mind that you never really get to see what a school is truly like on a tour anyway as they only show you the good parts!

Ithink your alternatives are limited.

I know this feels very special and unique to you but many many children go to the only school that is an option for them and therefore a parental visit is neither here nor there.

For example

• when there is only one option in the locality
• when catchments are such that there is only one option realistically
• when you move to an area and you take what you can get.
• when your financial or social constraints limit you ability to travel to a preferred or better school

Schools are not the only predictor of education success and some of the other controllables are more controllable.

This is not a covid thing. It just affects more people who were lucky enough to be in a position to state a preference.

And if the schools are all under subscribed then you are basically laughing anyway.

Op, I have 1 in primary and 1 just started secondary. I did the tours, talked to others and in the end the decision I made for my second was invalidated the day he started as the school hes at and other other option both had new heads that started the same time as him and both have changed the schools dramatically.

I think you have to think about what you do want for your child and then find out which option meets that most closely by whatever means you can.

So for my eldest a stable preferably small class - no re-mixing of classes each year, a good SEN reputation, outdoor space and some kind of afterschool option was my list.
For my second I was looking for a challenging environment for the brightest kids, sports opportunities, connections with some of the kids from his preschool and options for how I would be able to collect both kids.

Your lists will be different but I could get answers for all of those questions without visiting the school.

You also sound as though alot of the schools are undersubscribed so realistically you can make your best guess and probably get a change later down track if you realise you really have made a bad decision. Each school has its specific strengths, but most schools are pretty average and most kids will be fine in them. Tbh if your local.school is a particularly bad school for any reason it is likely you will have heard anyway.

Alternatives you mention homeschooling - if you think you can then try it - you will get no support and no resources so it is certainly not an easy option. Private - if you can afford to do that for 13yrs then go for it it will very likely be better. You can always switch into private later on though. Delayed start if you child is not 4 till may21 onwards then you can apply to defer. Depending on the child this might also be an option but you need to think through the implications of this on your child too.

Its crap - I dont think anyone is denying that. My SEN Yr 7 started secondary without any of the usual induction, but she's surviving. Good luck with whatever you choose.

We looked round schools 2 years ago but actually with hindsight got it wrong for DC1. This year we have to apply for DC2 so have been looking again. I think you can tell more than you think from a schools website. For example, it turns out that for us a key thing about a school that matters to us is how well it communicates with parents, particularly about DC's learning but also more broadly (particularly important right now). What would have turned out to be the better choice for us has an up to date website, with copies of newsletters to parents - what a school thinks it worth telling parents is surprisingly informative about their priorities as a school. There often is also Information about what they are doing in class (look for documents like curriculum statements, they can be buried) and what expectations around e.g. homework and behaviour policies are. If you dig across the websites of all 5 schools I think you'll rapidly get a sense of some of the differences between schools and maybe see some things you like and some you don't. From that research you should then be able to draw up a starting list of questions about things that matter to you to ask a school.

Some schools round here are doing out of hours tours, do any near you? Otherwise, they are doing virtual tours but are offering calls where they can answer your questions. If they don't say on their website, I'd contact the school office and ask for a chat. If they are under subscribed, I'd be very surprised if at least some of them don't offer a call.

You don't have to take the place up if you so choose but I'd apply now based on the information you do have. You can always decide to withdraw later to homeschool.

Of course I understand why normal tours cannot take place. I asked why evening visits were not an option - too much cleaning apparently. I am interested to know what the private sector are doing

I'm in a private school and, although we've cancelled our open mornings and have a virtual tour on the website, we are doing in person private tours. They're not like normal tours would be (parents have to wear masks and are not allowed to go into the classrooms) but they can look through windows, get a feel of the place and meet any teachers of subjects they are particularly interested in (outside).
Not ideal but better than nothing.

We also allow pupils in for assessment and taster days.

I suppose whether or not a school will do that will depend on how much they need the money (private) or pupils (state). We REALLY need both money and pupils. Covid related job insecurity/redundancy has cost us 10% of our pupils.

It's obviously an important decision, but I don't see what a 10 minute walk round, in the evening when there are no classes going on, is going to tell you that you can't get from a virtual tour plus chat with the headteacher. You can glean a lot from the school website, Ofsted report, school social media etc. Also unless you are new to the area, surely you must know someone who knows about the local schools. Have you never met any other parents of children of similar ages that have older siblings? Even having just moved here and had lockdown I know people with children in all 4 of the local schools. And my child is only one. Ask your childminder for a start.

@newwnamme is it possible if they are local to you, that you can wander by the school on a break or lunchtime and see how the children seem in the playground? You might get a bit of an insight into how things are run? My daughter is starting nursery this month and I have only stuck my head through one door, otherwise had to stay outside for a meeting with the manager. I 100% understand why things are like this at the moment but it's a bit daunting for most parents to send the child somewhere they haven't seen as they would previously have expected. I have gone by the Ofsted report and I have since found out one of my friends knew someone who worked there previously who loved it. That has helped a little.
Does your daughter have any friends going to school at the same time who have older siblings? Their parents would at least have a current recent experience of the school

If your schools are under subscribed then you could presumably change your mind. You could potentially view them next summer or even move your child once they start. You are lucky to have an actual choice although I accept it makes it difficult to choose.

My DD has just started Reception. She has friends who had to start school having never been in the building because they (the kids) didn't go on tours last Oct or they didn't get their school of choice. They have coped fine.

YANBU to be disappointed and frustrated by the situation but personally it seems a bit dramatic to make massive changes to your plans over this. At any rate I would apply the best you can and change things if you are really unhappy later on. I also feel the head and senior leadership really influence the school, so if you can have some dialogue with them then great.

Military families do it all the time, it’s just the way it is right now.

Imagine what it's like trying to choose a uni?! Such a tricky situation

Tricky, OP. Every single school decision I have ever made has been based on gut feeling, following a visit, chatting with the current pupils etc. I am not sure how else I could have chosen schools to suit my children (who are all very different, and who have been to schools that suit them, though they are not the same schools as one another).

I can't believe that bloody Covid and lockdown are preventing parents from choosing the best school for their child.

Further musings. I didn't send my DC1 until he had turned five (so he missed Reception). I failed to keep the others at home, as they wanted to be at school, having seen what fun school was . I was more than happy to have them at home, so there was no hurry to start school.

I wouldn't have sent any of mine to a school I hadn't seen properly.

Different here as DS is y5, but I had planned to visit the secondaries this autumn to get a good feel and fine tune next September. He has SENs and needs a good balance of stretch and nurture. Our catchment secondary is OK and I'd peobably be OK with DS2 going there, but OFSTED has identified SEN provision as a weakness, and I know of pupils in recent years that have struggled with pastoral support and it depends heavily on your HoY.
Fortunately one contender is my most recent workplace and I still know people working there. Others, I am less sure on.

With primary, I was pretty sure that the catchment school ticked the boxes, and it is reassuring to visit and get the atmosphere yourself. I had DS2 wrapped to my back and at each KS2 classroom I got a couple of waves and "hello Barn Owls" from various Brownies

Most children will do decently in most schools anyway. Parental support is the best foundation. It is a more serious consideration if SENs are involved (not that that was evident when applying for DS1) the proportion of children who are significantly hindered by the wrong school choice is quite low. Even with a better informed choice than is avaliable this year, there are variables such as class personalities.

You are being so fucking entitled OP it's untrue. Yes, at the end of a day spent breathing in the air of multiple children and doing a 2m dance around your colleagues, the best thing that could be done is bringing in dozens of adults to the school. Would you be happy for your dc to use a classroom the next morning that had had 60 adults standing in it the night before, breathing (obviously) and touching things your child might touch the next day? For what? How will you get the atmosphere of the school when there are no pupils there? Do the schools a favour and home educate, if this bothers you so much then a million other things will.
Yes I know this is harsh but after what school staff are being asked to do at the moment you would think you'd know better than to even ask this ridiculous question.

Honestly @newwnamme ? Choosing a school for your child is always pot luck to some extent. You never really know whether it’s the right one til you get them there. The tour that shows you what thru want you to see, will only be a part of the information you want to consider and all the other parts you can still access.

But you never know whether it’s right til they’re there and settled in. I’ve had 4 kidsC the oldest is in 6th form, so between them and a few home moves we’ve looked at a good number of schools! Sometimes I’ve got it right, sometimes less successful. The first school we used, I went to! Thought I couldn’t know it better! But it didn’t provide what my child needed at all.

I would advise, look at all the info you can get, speak to any parents you can and make a choice. Apply for a place. By the summer your child may well get to do a taster session before reception starts. If all is well at that point, send them in September. And then just give it a go. You seriously won’t be much worse off than if you’d had that tour...

You can tell quite a lot about a primary school from digging around on their website, especially at the moment.
You can find all the newsletters, see what trips they do in normal years. What clubs they offer, and at the moment some websites still have the remnants of what they set for home learning, and how they communicated through that time, which tells you a lot I think.

@Whitestick

You are being so fucking entitled OP it's untrue. Yes, at the end of a day spent breathing in the air of multiple children and doing a 2m dance around your colleagues, the best thing that could be done is bringing in dozens of adults to the school. Would you be happy for your dc to use a classroom the next morning that had had 60 adults standing in it the night before, breathing (obviously) and touching things your child might touch the next day? For what? How will you get the atmosphere of the school when there are no pupils there? Do the schools a favour and home educate, if this bothers you so much then a million other things will. Yes I know this is harsh but after what school staff are being asked to do at the moment you would think you'd know better than to even ask this ridiculous question.

I'm sorry, what? I think in your anger you've missed the question I was asking.

I think I've said a few times - I'm not asking or expecting to be allowed to go on a tour. I asked what was on offer - was told nothing beyond website information. The receptionist explained no evenings events either in view of the extra cleaning you so rightly point out would be necessary. They are ordinarily put on by schools in this area, and my answer to the poster above about who would staff these events was based on that - i.e. the same people who always do.

Do you have a child due to start school next year? If so, I'd love to know whether you'd consider private or home education or some other alternative, or whether you would peruse the local facebook groups, read the ofsted reports and then take your best guess. There are obviously costs to be weighed against benefits for all options. If you're not making this decision, and are otherwise unable to empathise, take your judgements elsewhere please.

At the end of the day, it's my job to make the right decision for my children's education. I'm afraid I don't agree considering what my options are, under extremely difficult circumstances constitutes 'fucking entitlement'.

Maybe it helps having children in schools already, so I'm clear on what I'm looking for, but we're moving soon and I've quite confidently chosen schools based on extensive internet trawling.
You really don't lear that much on open days. You get a speech and a PowerPoint and a whizz round the building. There's so much more to be found with some clever searching.
Old local news reports on events, what sorts of things they spend pta money on, do they do lots of shows etc or not, are the newsletters endlessly moaning on about uniform or are they friendly and positive?
You can even sometimes find what honework they set etc.

Nothing you have posted has changed my view of your entitlement. You haven't posted to ask "how do I get a feel for which school to choose given they understandably can't have open days". You are ignoring the health and safety of the human beings, young and old, already in that school. You can't see past your own nose, can you?

They often have twitter feeds now too, which gives a glimpse, especially as to how they were through lockdown which I think says a lot about the character of the school.

Search Facebook groups for comments, old mumsnet posts.... obviously you don't decide against a school because if one old post, but put together all these things build a picture.