to think I’m not being unreasonable (divorce)

[BettyBroderick]

We are divorcing. Kids are pre teens, some mild disabilities.
My pension pot is 400
His pension pot is 725
Cash/shares 40
I’m SAHM, no income
He earns 85k
House equity 500
Mortgage -50

I want to keep the house, with no mortgage,
Not so bothered about anything else. Is that fair?

He wants to sell the house to release the equity and us both buy somewhere each, mine outright, and him using his as a deposit and then remortgaging. He wants the kids 50:50 so no child maintenance and also wants a clean break. We are both 50.

I think he’s not being fair. AIBU?

Proper legal advice here I think the pension pots etc all mean this isn’t a straightforward split that can be done without proper legal process

The only way he earned all that money is by not doing any childcare
How can you possibly know that?

Also, slot of assumptions that OP will be single. Again, we don't know. Maybe she is divorcing her husband to live with her new partner.

Based on what I've seen happen with friends, you need to be realistic. They'd been married 16 years. No children. After marriage one of them, X, gave up work because of anxiety and depression. She pursued two MAs and other professional qualifications in that time with the intention of working, but never did. Z, her partner, is a relatively high earner (£70,000) who bought significant equity into the marriage, so they had a nice house and a good lifestyle. When Z decided to end the marriage and offered X a generous settlement X declined, under the impression that Z was obliged to maintain her for the rest of her life. The reality — as she discovered in court — was that the equity Z had brought to the marriage and the savings he'd been sole contributor to were taken into account. X was awarded a smaller settlement, including a smaller percentage of Z's pension fund than X had anticipated. Your case is different because of the children, obviously, but your ex is not expected to maintain you post divorce.

I'd suggest you work on the assumption that you will have to make significant changes to your lifestyle. You and the children may have to move to somewhere cheaper and you will have to work, even if it's minimum wage work. I would suggest it's best to be psychologically prepared for this and to have plans.

@BettyBroderick

My advisor (solicitor friend) said the first thing is both of your need to be adequately housed and afford the payments if applicable. So typically (happened for me and for dp) the higher earner gets less house equity (possibly keeping more pension pot) but they need enough money to get a house, a deposit, the amount of savings comes into play here. We are selling our home and I'm getting 65% and pension pots are 50/50 as a guide. Savings all split already at 50/50. Dp's exw got enough to buy outright but pension was adjusted accordingly to 50/50 however she gets 5 years spousal support. It all depends on your needs, staying in the same house unless you can raise a mortgage to buy him out is highly unlikely on your given figures

The points that stand out for me are that you are the primary carer, 50:50 care isn't realistic on his part practically (whether he wants to get out of paying maintenance or not), your children have SEN so after school clubs etc. not suitable care, if you don't keep your current house mortgage free in the divorce you'll be priced out of the area and the DCs will have to move schools (their SEN likely making that even more difficult and disruptive than it would normally be).

So I'd be ensuring that all discussions remain focused on the DCs needs, he is going to have to get real where their care and educational needs are concerned and the financial split needs to reflect that. If you have to move house he'll need to agree to move them to a suitable school near to where you can afford to live. However far away.

I earn 100k plus and do all drop off and pick ups and always gave donuts nonsense to suggest otherwise !
However, you’ll need to both get cetv valuations on pensions and he’ll need some liquid cash assets now to use as deposit
£85k salary at 50 having to start from scratch mortgage wise with only 15 year term is not great for him, combined with child maintenance. Factor in uncertainty re jobs market he’s in a very precarious position ! You on the offer hand expect all liquid assets, a house paid for and him to have al the future risk
I think you need to consider releasing some of the equity now to him even if that results in pension sharing order from him to you

Gave donuts ? Always have so it’s nonsense .....

your children have SEN so after school clubs etc. not suitable care
OP says mild SEN. They were a number of kids with mild SEN at my kids after school and holiday clubs.

I just find it confusing that such a large joint pot and relatively tiny mortgage might still mean the children have to lose their home

They won't lose their home. You'll move house and that will become their home. I think you have to accept this and make a case for a high equity split so you can make the next home in a decent house.

@dontdisturbmenow

your children have SEN so after school clubs etc. not suitable care OP says mild SEN. They were a number of kids with mild SEN at my kids after school and holiday clubs.

She specifies in one of her posts that neither she or her husband can put the DCs in after school club or with a childminder, it would have to be someone trained.

How old are DC? Courts are wary of handing over the house to a woman with teenagers who sells it to live without working the second they turn 18.

You’re being very unreasonable to want the house.

You’ll need to give your head a wobble. Your circumstances will change significantly, you’re divorcing.

Your children shouldn’t suffer. But changes will have to be made- new schools even?

There's some really good advice you can read on wikivorce etc.

Kids with SEN alters things a little.

But it should be fair so that you start afresh on an equal footing. That doesn't mean 50/50.

Put your kids first. What do they need? Right now and in the future.
House is bricks. Home is where you and the kids are.

it is highly unlikely he will do anything near 50:50
Does he realise that 50/50 means he has then did half of all school holidays
50:50 care isn't realistic on his part practically

• much more

Why are you making these assumptions?? Have you never met single mums or dads working full time? Why is it so obvious that OP's DH wouldn't be capable and/or willing?

Re childcare, as a PP posted, OP says 'mild SEN' which means school clubs are not necessarily impossible. He could hire a nanny, maybe he has family willing to help, maybe an au-pair... My DS has mild SEN, he would be absolutely fine left with an au-pair for a few hours after school.

She specifies in one of her posts that neither she or her husband can put the DCs in after school club or with a childminder, it would have to be someone trained
That might be her view, he might think differently. Some clubs to have trained staff.

@dontdisturbmenow

She specifies in one of her posts that neither she or her husband can put the DCs in after school club or with a childminder, it would have to be someone trained That might be her view, he might think differently. Some clubs to have trained staff.

If he's going to have them 50/50 he needs to be getting these ducks in a row now.

OP I don't know what industry your husband works in but have in the back of your mind he could be made redundant so ensure you go for a clean break rather than spousal maintenance.

Also you do need to get some of his pension pot as you need to be able to live in retirement.

OP says he has upped his game so Indeed started and also that he is more home. Maybe he could make that permanent and not need any childcare.

How will he have the kids 50/50... if he works full time. Is that gong to work... and are the children happy with that?
What happens if he changes his mind afterwards and won’t have the children.

Would you be able to afford to run a large home with just your income and no maintenance. I’d rather have a smaller home and maintenance. If I couldn’t work due to the children’s needs.

The only way he earned all that money is by not doing any childcare.

So would you also say that the only way she got to enjoy living fully provided-for (her - I'm not talking about the kids once they had arrived) in an expensive house was by living off his earnings?

Until they split, it was a partnership - you can't claim on the one hand that looking after the children is such a monumental job but earning the family money by working full-time in a stressful job is one tiny jump up from a little hobby, regardless of how the duties are split between the parents.

Now that they have split, what if he was hoping to go part-time or flexi-time with a consequential loss in earnings, specifically in order to be able to fulfill his 50/50 parenting duties? Very unlikely, I know, but everybody is automatically thinking the worst of a man who does (to me) seem to be at least trying to settle things fairly, as he sees it.

Even Though he does want the kids 50/50 sometimes CMS is still to be paid. Have you run it through the calculator. My mum got SM on a much less salary than this. You need a good lawyer.

I agree there is a lot of bitterness on here from people.

It’s a red herring that OP couldn’t work due to her physical issues. If he only spent an hour a day with them, then she would have done all of the childcare stuff anyway. Whether she worked or didn’t work, lm guessing he prefers her doing 99% of child related stuff

I completely agree made a list of time and money that your children require. It doesn’t sound like he sits that closely to the detail and / or probably “forgets“. I wouldn’t be keen to go clean break with 2 children and them having additional needs

It’s interesting he only spent 1 hour a day with them until recently. But now magically spends more, this says to me he could have spent more chose more not to. He’s now performing basically

Divorce is very divisive and still some people (especially women). Think women should be “grateful” to get anything. Some “friends” of mine were clearly aggravated when l negotiated a fair deal from my ex-husband. After a 11 year marriage and accruing over £125k of house equity, then he offered me £5k and me leaving all furnishings for him. I said no to this deal

The sad reality is that it's not a very big pie to divide up when you consider housing 4 people, educating 2 children, and supporting 4 people. Forever. £85 k is not that much and only the very wealthy (and generous) don't begrudge paying their ex to be a SAHP. And even then that's usually so they don't need a childminder and retain control.

The only real way this is going to be ok is if there is a larger pie aka another income. It might be daunting to think about work but if you are intelligent (which you seem to be) then re training and getting something that works around your disability is the best option for you, and for your children.

A minimum wage job is hard. The further up the ladder you go the more you can do things like WFH if you want, with money for holidays and help at home and after school/school holiday help that will suit all of your children (and may be very beneficial for them). Work brings so much. Intellectual stimulation, adult conversations, money for treats, social contact. And a sense of purpose beyond bringing up children who will fly the nest at some point anyway!

To just say age x I'm never going to work again is not good for you. I know profoundly disabled people who work. If you can use a computer you can work these days. Work isn't a curse - people enjoy abc take pride in their work when they want to. They like getting out and about, and having people to talk to. There actually isn't a better tone for you in many ways as everything's gone online and the government is helping with re training etc.

It's up to you, but even if you get 60% of this and keep the house if you don't find another income your life will be miserable, and poor, before you know it.

Realistically, you need to consider the possibility of moving house and at least looking for part time work. Your disability and your children’s SEN will be taken into account as it lowers your earning capacity.

The most important thing is to get good legal advice and be prepared to go to mediation. Hopefully your stbx won’t want to go to court but a 50-50 split doesn’t sound at all fair.

I do agree re you doing the lions share when the children were younger. However, he provided a lifestyle at the time far above and beyond what you could have paid for.

Of course you deserve a fair settlement. But even that won't support you for the next 60 years. A £40k pension will last you a few years and how do you support yourself when they leave home for 15 or more years before getting that pension?

Maybe you have wealthy parents. I havent so am looking at it from the viewpoint that I have to pay for me, for ever. But I do think that the end game shouldn't be stay in the house without money and he hasn't got it to hand over even if he wanted to.

He absolutely should pay their expenses. Well at least half. But the past is gone and the future is what's left.