If you are really posh...

[quickque]

How do you view people that aren't?

A genuine question. I can't help but feel as if some of my husbands friends / colleagues think that he's married 'down'....

Maybe a generalisation but I mostly get this impression from his female friends.

There is a weird English thing that the truly posh people are the world’s nicest people and never look down on others, whereas it’s the ones who made their own money you have to look out for. [...] This fawning over the posh is really unedifying.

Amen to all the above. That patronising 'salt of the earth' descriptive, when applied (as it always is) to the lower economic demographic, is equally inaccurate and as dismissive as the 'posh = nice' thing is sycophantic. The whole idea that anyone should be valued for what they have rather than who they are is nauseating. The words 'classy' and 'chavvy' would never appear in my vocabulary.

I'm a rider. There's a certain type of equestrian I avoid like the plague. And although generalisations are just that, my experience (ONLY) is that the posher, the earthier (sometimes filthier). Making it worse for myself through sexism, this particularly seems to apply to the women!

Not that many "really posh" people don't have to work for a living so I don't think work is probably relevant to very posh unless you are the royal family. Even some of the Queen's grandchildren have to work for a living.

I am reasonably middle class, private school etc and would never "lok down" on anyone. The Christian values I and indeed the Queen was brought up with are that everyone is equal.

My dad friend is very ‘posh’, they have been good friends for 50+ years. You wouldn’t notice though, banger of a car, no airs or graces. My dads certainly not posh, brought up in a rough council estate, still lives in his bought council house. It’s the people with new money that seem to be the problem here. Want everyone to think they are posh, have money and look down on people.

I once worked for an organisation in which the board mostly consisted of 'proper' poshos - dukes etc, titled aristos with pedigrees as long as your arms. They were all lovely.

The only unpleasant individual I came across was a woman who came from the same average lower- middle class background as I did (state-educated etc, but not exactly washing the coal dust off at the end of the day).

I made a minor mistake in addressing a letter to somebody very grand - the sort of mistake that is easy to make if you haven't grown up reading Debretts.

The person to whom I addressed the letter shrugged it off perfectly gracefully, but the social climber took GREAT PLEASURE in pointing out how my very small faux pas was concrete proof that I wasn't 'PLU'.

However, I got the feeling that the proper aristos thought she was a bit of a declassé arriviste, so I wasn't too bothered.

In my experience, therefore, very posh people tend to be less class conscious (and often have better manners) than the 'lower social orders'.

Anyone who behaves in a way that makes another feel ‘lesser’ is not ‘posh’.

There is a difference between wealthy and posh. Is it wives/husbands who have married in to any associated wealth that are making you feel this way? It is the ‘nouveau’ element that often exhibits such classless behaviours.

In my experience, genuinely posh people are so well-bred that they would never dream of behaving that way.

I used to work for lots of landed estates in my first job. In my experience, they were really down to earth and not at all fussed with background and the way people dress etc. I felt that my working class background and theirs had a lot of overlap in attitude. It's the middle class that worry so much about what other people think.

I can't imagine anybody thinking they are 'really posh' and imagine, if anyone did, they would be far from it!

Stop being such a snob, you're as good as anyone and I doubt people look down on you. Remove the chip today and stride forward in confidence! Character is what matters.

@HollywoodHandshake obviously talk of a trust fund is about money but come on - Michael Middleton wasn't exactly down pits. He was solid upper middle class.

But it is all about background, I mean Prince Andrew seems a delightful sort doesn't he ;) All that lovely aristocratic breeding and he just oozes nice manners

And I just know that someone will now point out that the Royals aren't really that posh

Not interested in their background, only their behaviour, manners, kindness.

One side of my family is "posh" (European) although the money went to another branch. So I have cousins that are quite posh and rich. I would say it's a generational thing. The younger generation is nicer and more aware, either they are the naive "let them eat cake" type or totally free spirited social enterprise yoga type. The older generation not so much. Quite snobbish, but mostly in private.

As for UK, I believe in London you do get a lot of social climbers. I have met many posh type people here that really assess everyone that comes into comtact with them. They might be perfectly polite to you and not look down on you, but what invitations you get, how close you get to be to them does very much depend on your "utility" and social capital. Not being nasty and rude to you doesn't mean you are in their inner circle.

@JaffaCake70

To a degree I know how you feel.

I'm a 50 year old single Mother. I grew up in a deprived area. I'm a band 2 hospital worker (not very well paid at all). I'm self sufficient and proud!

I recently ended a two and a half year relationship. I ended it for a number of reasons but one of the reasons was that I definitely got the impression that my ex and his friends viewed me as 'less than' them. I'll not include his family in this because they were truly lovely and made me feel very accepted and welcome.

I do have to say though, that I think getting into a relationship with a man who lived in a 'posh' village, amongst solely affluent people, was a mistake on my part. My insecurities about my social status kicked in big time and probably made me quite judgy of them too.

I couldn't stand the fact that the main topic of conversation when 'down the pub' was how much someone was worth or which multi million pound property had just gone on the market. My ex would constantly tell me how rich certain people were, it was all about money. He would never talk about things that his acquaintances had achieved, it was always about how much a person was worth. I don't get that, I really don't.

Ultimately I didn't fit in with his crowd and being around them started to make me feel like I'd failed at life in some way. Now that I'm out of that situation I'm working on bettering myself (not to make money, but to build on my self esteem).

I think we project how we feel about ourselves on to others. I'm intelligent enough to know that if I was secure in my view of myself, it wouldn't have affected me in the way that it did to be around these people.

What you say is true, if it's just one person projecting their insecurities on to you then a happy person won't be affected by one sneery person. But if all of your spouse's circle are a bit disdainful of your background, you'd need to be superhuman to completely disregard that!

I meant to add that the most awful snob I know (a school mum NOT a friend) is definitely not posh but looks down on anyone who appears to have less than her. She's all about designer this and that, going for dinner/ cocktails at all the best places but she works in a shop and can't afford to learn to drive. Nothing wrong with those things of course but the way she sneers at other mums' handbags and haircuts is boggling!

@honeylulu

That's similar to my experience. It's all about the flashy things, even if you've indebted yourself up to the eyeballs to pay for them.

@ToastyCrumpet

I’d agree with the people who say the really posh don’t give a damn and will mix with anyone. But when it comes to the crunch, eg who their close friends are and they marry, it’s pretty well always other really posh people.

This isn't true though. They'll be pleasant to you if your paths cross but they won't mix with you (socially).

There is a difference between being courteous and warm to the people you meet in the course of your life and inviting them in to your life socially. The latter will not happen. So the whole 'narrative' of Truly confident classy people will be respectful to everybody, it is just an accessory, very easy to wear. Would their son marry you though?! NO.

The only ‘posh’ person I know who is openly superior and snooty is a middle class (dad was a vicar, she went to minor public school) woman who married someone properly posh ( Eton, titled family, private income, Manor House). I think that being the relatively common one in her family makes her feel insecure so she looks down in other people to boost her confidence.

However I also have a feeling she would be an equally horrible and judgemental bitch if she hadn’t married ‘up’. And although on the surface she has everything, houses, staff, jewellery, travel etc her husband is a very difficult man to be married to but she is financially bound to him now so there is no escape.

Xenia Not that many "really posh" people don't have to work for a living so I don't think work is probably relevant to very posh unless you are the royal family. Even some of the Queen's grandchildren have to work for a living.

I know plenty of men who live off small trust funds. It depends on whether they want to maintain a certain wealthy standard of living or are happy to live in a flat with maybe a little "McBusiness" to keep them visibly, if only partially, occupied. Its also a bit different when you can advertise tea in China, a la Peter Phillips, and get paid a fortune for it, or actually hold down a full time job.

MrsCampbellBlackAgain But it is all about background, I mean Prince Andrew seems a delightful sort doesn't he ;) All that lovely aristocratic breeding and he just oozes nice manners

Some of the older European Royal families, namely the Dutch and Scandinavian ones, look down upon the British royal family as being a bit "arriviste" and a bit common, as do some members of the British aristocracy. Diana Spencer's family in some ways outranked the BRF and might explain why she felt able to stand up to them, give interviews, etc.. Mind you, even the Spencers are descended from 15th century sheep traders.

There was once a debate between a Lord Spencer and the Earl of Arundel who said "My Lord, when these things you speak of were doing, your ancestors were keeping sheep". Lord Spencer then instantly replied, "When my ancestors as you say were keeping sheep, your ancestors were plotting treason."

I don’t think it’s as cut and dry.

I think it depends entirely on the person and how secure they are as a person.

My partner chose me, whilst they’re not posh they’re pretty wealthy in compassion to what I grew up with.

Amongst his friends and family, they certainly behaved as though I was beneath them. But as the years go by, I’ve created strong relationships with some family members.

I was painfully shy and I remember one of his friends thought I didn’t go out to dinner with them because I didn’t like them. It was actually because I had very little confidence and no social skills whatsoever.

I found it was mostly the women who had something to say about how I looked and dressed. I wasn’t clean and proper. My teeth aren’t perfectly straight and I have a northern accent.

But then I came to realise they had something to say about everyone and understood it stems from insecurity and jealousy. I still do struggle with identifying when they’re being jealous and when they’re being mean.

There’s a lady at the school my kids attend who judges you based on what labels you wear and what you do for a living. Rubs shoulders with what she probably defines as interesting and elite people and puts them on a pedestal.

My job is far from glamorous but it’s well paid and I don’t work many hours. It requires a lot of physical work. Others have glamorous jobs that require them to work their asses off and on paper it looks amazing but evidently not very well paid. This particular person prefers to rub shoulders with the glamorous workers. Yet drives a shitty banger.

I like to shop at budget stores and am careful with my money but the looks I get because I’m not wearing a designer brand are looks of disgust from this particular person.

Other parents at this school are very down to earth and whilst they clearly have more money to spend, they’re very supportive or complimentary.

I get the idea they’ve got nothing to prove therefore less judgmental?

I maybe wrong but that’s my experience.

It’s all very bizarre.

Generalising probably but my observation is that true (if it's even a thing) posh old money never look down on anyone, they tend to get on with everyone and don't even notice. However 'new' money tend to be much more judgey and talk about what people are worth etc, makes them very common with no breeding and manners imo!

One of the social rules to 'true poshness' is to never let someone know they have made faux pas and feel uncomfortable. So if you use the wrong fork you would not know and you would not be told!

I think I learnt that from The Crown!

Slinks off to clearly non-country house pile.

I have a title so I suppose I’m posh. I don’t really like people that much but I don’t look down on people. Most people are dickheads regardless of class.

@MarieIVanArkleStinks

I can think of fewer things that matter less about a person's integrity or value than which 'drawer' they happen to come from. The British fixation with social class is something I only started to notice in early adulthood, and even when I did see it have never ever comprehended it. In America and on the continent it leaves people scratching their heads, and I see it as definitely one of the negative points about living on these islands.

Best advice is to give the finger to boring old convention and social expectation. What other people think of you is none of your business, and once you stop caring it feels very liberating.

That's is categorically untrue. "America" might have slightly different criteria, but they can be just as bad, and the "continent" is just as aware of classes if not more.

And you conveniently forget Asia (in the widest possible meaning), the Middle East where class difference is acknowledged by a lot more than a smirk. Try to marry someone from a different class in India or Thailand and let us know how you got on!

I might be wrong, but Australia and New Zealand seem a lot less affected by it all.

I don’t think I’m in the least bit ‘posh’ & very much hate it as a label, it’s really lazy. Thanks to my background and voice it’s a label that gets stuck on me though.

My mothers family are genuinely ‘posh’ not that this is a word she or they would use to describe themselves. My DM is I’ll be honest snobbish, not about the working class at all but new money, people she sees basically as pretending to be what they are not - she does use words like ‘bourgeois’ and jumped up’. Just to be clear, I’m not saying that this ok in the least because it’s not. If you’ve worked hard and bought yourself some big status symbols, your money, why the hell not?! I do remember one of DMs friends who is (or was) an aristocrat saying ‘only very common people worry about others being common’. I get that this is in itself really judgemental but I think from my experience that this holds for many.

As others have said, have more faith in yourself. No one else defines your worth. Stride forth..the opinion of anyone judging you on your background isn’t worth a hoot anyway!

I agree about the difference between those from old families or aristo backgrounds being outwardly friendly to all and seeming to be totally unaware of class but treating everyone decently, and it not going any further than that.

People from landed families etc have been used to dealing with ‘staff’ or underlings all their lives, or encountering people in the village that they own. They aren’t quite at the point of calling them ‘Carson’ now, but they have learned the ‘right’ way to speak to such people is with seeming friendliness, extreme courtesy and perhaps a self deprecating humour...it all seems very equality based on the surface, but there can be an undercurrent to it. So the tone can change just slightly to instructing someone to do something for them in a way that makes it perfectly clear that there is an expectation the person will do that thing and really has no choice in the matter. If there is any resistance or the other person not fitting in with aristos plans, it can become very clear that isn’t acceptable and exactly who is in charge....and it’s not quite the equal relationship it first seemed. So there is a line that can’t be crossed.

And when it comes to close friendships or marriage, as others have said, individuals or certainly families can very much be of the view that whilst it might be fine to socialise with a bit of rough and tinker on the edges of middle class life, there is a boundary that must not be crossed and only those with a very similar background experience and common past can enter the inner sanctum of very close friendship or marriage. It might be fine to shag the ‘common people’ but you don’t actually marry them.

And I know this is all rather extreme and probably doesn’t apply in its entirety, but I think we can see whiffs of it. The ‘oh I don’t know what class I am and have never thought about it before, we’re all just equals arent we’ might be said out loud but isn’t usually truly believed. But it’s easy to fall for it because most of us have limited experience of real ‘poshos’ and never get beyond the surface level interaction with them that suggests they see everyone as an equal.

JaffaCake I do have to say though, that I think getting into a relationship with a man who lived in a 'posh' village, amongst solely affluent people, was a mistake on my part

How can a village be posh though? Posh people don't live in villages. They either live in the countryside, or in a town or city. Or both.