To say no to request to clean his house?

[Rose789]

I feel like a bitch and I’m awake at 1am worrying about it.
My brother and sil have 3 kids. Between ages of 4-10 (so all in school)
Brother works full time sil works part time (3 days a week)
Kids spend every Saturday night at their grandparents house.
Sil has been signed off for work for depression and is struggling and finding it difficult to get the motivation to do anything.
I text sil and told her if she ever needed any support or someone to listen I’m here for her.
Spoke to my brother told him if there was anything I can do to help let me know e.g if they wanted me to have the kids overnight or if they got stuck with the school run.

He’s messaged today saying what would be the most helpful is if I could go round and clean the house as it’s a bomb site and sil isn’t doing any housework and he hasn’t got time with kids.
I’ve said no for several reasons

1. I have my own house to clean. Yes it’s hard trying to clean around kids I understand that. But that’s the same for everyone. The oldest 2 are more then old enough to start helping in the house but they have no chores at all. They will eat sweets and just drop the wrapper on the floor. Have a drink and the cup just gets put anywhere.

2. My dad has a lot of health issues. As a result I spend at least one day and one evening a week cleaning his house doing his washing making meals, getting shopping. My brother occasionally visits and doesn’t help at all.

3. I was ill at the start of the year and spent a lot of time in hospital. Dh managed to clean the house, look after the kids and visit me, and work full time. Brother and sil picked up dd from school on one day. No other help- or offers to help.

4. the kids are at their grandparents every single Saturday night. Blitz the place when they are gone if you can’t do it when they are there.
   I would kill for a night off every single week.

I know my reasons are valid. But I do also feel awful for sil I have been in a similar position where everything was just too much of an effort even getting out of bed. While the mess and dishes and washing piled up around me. It’s an awful place to be and it might help her if the house is clean and tidy and she doesn’t need to worry about it. But she has a husband who is just as capable as she is at stepping up and doing the cleaning.
I’m such a people pleaser I’m really struggling to stick to my guns and refuse to help.
I’m not being unreasonable am I?

“Can we please stop feeling sorry for men who suddenly have to do the things women usually do for them and can we please stop making women responsible for the wellbeing of other women because men won't step up.”

BRAVA 👏

justanotherneigh I can’t get over it! How on earth can posters bring themselves to say she should just go over there and ‘blitz’ the place for a man whose kids are away every Saturday whilst she’s looking after their father too??? It must be one of the most depressing threads I have ever seen on MN and just shows how utterly entrenched the view is that cleaning is always a woman’s job.

I would HELP my brother clean, I wouldn’t do it for him, and the kids if old enough can also help.
At nursery they have a tidy up time, so they can do it from an early age

@FOJN

YANBU at all.

MN has virtually trade marked the term cheeky fucker and yet you are getting so many replies saying you should do it because you offered to help without being specific. Many of us offer to help other people without specifying the boundaries because we simple don't expect people to take the piss. I think you were specific enough when you gave examples of what you could do. If I had a friend who lived alone then the things I would be prepared to do would be different to the help I would be happy to provide to a friend in a couple or family situation.

You are taking sole responsibility for making sure your father is cared for and managing your own household. It sounds like your brother has been happy to allow the lion's share of the mental and domestic load to fall on his wife's shoulders and now the nanny/housekeeper is out of action he needs a replacement because, through lack of practice, he's unable to juggle everything. He needs to step up and stop taking the piss out of his wife and trying to do the same with you.

Can we please stop feeling sorry for men who suddenly have to do the things women usually do for them and can we please stop making women responsible for the wellbeing of other women because men won't step up.
I witnessed what my mother's life was like because of the social pressure put on women to fulfill certain roles and I think it's time women simply said no.

Stick to your guns OP and maintain your boundaries.

This reminds me of a recent conversation I had where the elderly husband now has to undertake the wife’s role in the house due to her deteriorating health condition. ‘It takes all day!!!’ he exclaimed when asked how he was managing the domestic chores. Yep! It certainly fucking does doesn’t it.

You can and should say no to that.

That is taking the piss. You offered to help in ways that were manageable for you.

I'd say to my brother ''no, that I cannot do, not when my own house needs to be tidied''

@CaptainBrickbeard

justanotherneigh I can’t get over it! How on earth can posters bring themselves to say she should just go over there and ‘blitz’ the place for a man whose kids are away every Saturday whilst she’s looking after their father too??? It must be one of the most depressing threads I have ever seen on MN and just shows how utterly entrenched the view is that cleaning is always a woman’s job.

Just don’t. I see the double standards here all the time and my blood pressure wishes I’d deregister.

@jay55

So he could take you up in your offer to have the kids, and do the cleaning himself during that time, but he'd rather you did the cleaning?

This is a much better plan as others have said.

He clearly sees the housework as her job normally- cleaning once wont help that dynamic. And she might be embarrassed to have you do it- it looks as if you agree that it's entirely her job.

How about you work with your brother to support him to help his wife. How about he takes a day off work and blitzes the house. If he's one of the useless men who wouldn't know where to start then you could help him with where to start and what to do but don't be there and don't do it. Then work with him on a plan to keep things ticking over - he keeps things ticking over. Then you are helping them both.

Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.

Nobody has said cleaning is a woman's job , this is about one human being asking another human being for help. Why are people bringing gender into it ? Why is every post I read on MN somehow boil down to this- it's detracting from the OP and diluting the answers with stuff that's likely not relevant to her .
OP - I wish you the best , you do sound like you have loads on your plate too . Let's hope you and your brother get through it OK x

I would offer to take the kids while himself and his wife clean.
You have enough to be doing. They don't sound like they were throwing themselves at you in January with offers of help.
In families there are the takers and the givers. Pisses me right off when some people take take take

''I know my reasons are valid. But I do also feel awful for sil I have been in a similar position where everything was just too much of an effort even getting out of bed. While the mess and dishes and washing piled up around me. It’s an awful place to be and it might help her if the house is clean and tidy and she doesn’t need to worry about it. But she has a husband who is just as capable as she is at stepping up and doing the cleaning.
I’m such a people pleaser I’m really struggling to stick to my guns and refuse to help.
I’m not being unreasonable am I?''

@Rose789

This part really resonated with me. It's how you've been conditioned. And you know that. I'm struggling with something similar.
My mother really hurt me in April (shocking thoughtlessness) and when I told her that that was v hurtful, she immediately turned it all around and made her self the victim of me. My Dad came over to give out to me for ''hurting mum''. Neither of them has communicated with me since April because they are angry/hurt.

I know from the core of all of my insight that I did nothing to them. I know that their behaviour hurting me is not an act of aggression against them, and yet I feel some guilt for not going back to them to ''apologise'' for telling them that they hurt me The family conditioning is that I should go back to them and apologise for having expected them to acknowledge when they hurt me. They family system is that I just mop it all up.

I SEE all this and yet the feelings of guilt are still there. I think they are dissipating though. Because over time I see that it's not just my parents' blindness. Their stubbornness, their lack of insight, their defensiveness. All of those truths become more obvious over time so I think my feelings of guilt are lessening and coming very slowly in to alignment with what I know rationally.

So don't cave in. Hold strong

@hesaidshesaidwhat

How about you work with your brother to support him to help his wife. How about he takes a day off work and blitzes the house. If he's one of the useless men who wouldn't know where to start then you could help him with where to start and what to do but don't be there and don't do it. Then work with him on a plan to keep things ticking over - he keeps things ticking over. Then you are helping them both.

Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.

Yes, maybe this. Talk him through it. But do not help. It's important that HE DOES IT.

Hope you're OK this morning, OP.

I think you're perfectly within rights to say no to specific requests like this. Just because you offered help doesn't mean you offered any help your brother wants. Would you be obliged to do so if he said "what would really help is if you paid off our family debts/took the kids to Disneyland"? If this is something you're not happy to do, better to say that than to do it and feel resentful and exhausted afterwards. Make it clear what you are willing to do, and then - if he would like it - do it.

I think OP has been given a really hard time on this thread. Offering to help doesn’t mean you have to do absolutely anything, regardless of how much of a massive task it is! She also already cleans for her father. Requests for help should take other people’s circumstances into account. Most people with busy lives would struggle to find the time and motivation to clean somebody else’s messy house from top to bottom.

Can you meet a happy medium? I think that they are clearly struggling and I realise it’s not what you were thinking of doing BUT it’s clearly what is needed.

Could you go over as a more of a supervisor approach. What I mean is that if the kids as you are of an age where they can help as you mentioned, have them there and assign them tasks so that they understand they need to help. Dangle a carrot of a take away or something for a job well done. I wonder if the structure needs to be put in place, so that your DB can see that he has help, he just needs to know they can be helpful. A sort of teamwork day? Not sure if that’s pushy, but many hands make light work.

But you offered!! Why don't you pay for a cleaning service to go over for a half day? You don't have to do it yourself.*

@MrsRusselBrand if gender doesn’t come into it, I wonder why you suggested earlier that the OP goes and helps SIL clean rather than suggesting she helps her brother to clean? Given that SIL is signed off work ill, it struck me as extremely odd to think that going over with music and cake and getting her to clean would be a better solution than going to help HIM clean - far better still for him to do it himself of course. But it does seem like some people are only looking for solutions that involve a woman cleaning this house, not the man who lives there. I’d say gender is extremely relevant. Or do you think it’s a total coincidence that the sibling who cooks and cleans for the ill father is the woman while the man does nothing - again!

Why not agree to clean their bathrooms ,kitchen or make the beds. This would have some impact and you did offer .Be specific about what you do and stress it's a one-off.

Maybe you could go round and have a quick tidy up .and say hoover ? Maybe DB could do some mopping, and SIL do just the washing if she doesnt feel up to much .I think sometimes if it all gets on top of someone then it becomes impossible .Just say that its a one off and you hope she feels better soon .Take some Chocs/Flowers with you .She is probably tired too ,with 4 young DC and a P/T job as well .Does DB do his share around the house ? Maybe he needs to step up!

You did offer to help... I would be rolling up my sleeves and doing it but would also be mindful that although he says that's what she'd like, she may be horrified and embarrassed at the idea. But it sounds like you're stretched - if she's on board how about helping her get a one-off cleaning company organised but go over beforehand and see if you can help her with some storage/organisation/tidying beforehand.

It sounds like your brother and SIL are exhausted (depression is exhausting for both). When you offered to help did you specifically say what you’d help with or ask if there’s anything you can do?

In your shoes I think I’d do their cleaning once, maybe just a few hours to tackle the worst of it.

Then say you have a bad back or something if they ask again, but re-offer to babysit their kids or sit with SIL.

Why did you offer to help then get upset when he asked you to help in a tangible way. Even sticking the hoover round snuff cleaning bathroom and kitchen would make a huge difference.

My mum does this. Constantly offers advice/tells me what to do. When I pull her up on that, she says it's because she want to help.
If I ever ask her for actual help that will help, she doesn't want to do it and makes a right fuss/wont do it.

Alwayslatte* you have your pronouns mixed up in the second paragraph hth.

I also would do it once for them, and afterwards discuss how they can manage going forward with cleaning.