Boss loudly and excessively telling me about his ‘DARLING WIFE’

[ZiggyStarburst]

Bit of a weird WFH one. I think my boss’s wife is listening to our calls.

I work closely with Boss, in a tiny team in big institution. We get on very well and chat etc in office hours but not outside it, and have never met up socially etc. We’ve WFH almost exclusively in last 7 months.

In the last couple of weeks he has started getting quite weird, loudly telling me last Friday that we wouldn’t be speaking over the weekend (neither of us has ever called each other over the weekend) and excessively and loudly talking about his ‘darling wife’ - literally crowbarred in to conversation as much as possible.

Background to this is that two weeks ago I told boss a male client had mentioned wanking (twice) and the same client had then been difficult in a meeting. Boss said nothing about the wanking thing but said I had misread the meeting. It has been weird since then, especially these calls. I have seen him once in RL which was normal but went back to weird as soon as WFH again.

So my question is, should I do something about this? I feel hugely uncomfortable being told excessively about his ‘DARLING WIFE’. (I very rarely mention my DH btw).

Until recently we had a great working relationship and I don’t want to disrupt that. However, I think the thing of me discussing wanking may (?) have caused him/his wife boundary issues? He is also good friends with this client.

YABU - leave this to blow over
YANBU - deal with it

Thanks - I am really appreciating the replies as this morning I have woken up feeling very low about it.

There are people I could speak to (Boss’s boss; HR) but those are not people I see in passing. I would be bringing a pretty big gun to the fight. However, I am a bit bothered that Boss has never referred to the client incident since I mentioned it. Instead, I seem to be getting the ‘well, how short WAS your skirt’ treatment.

Rise above OP ....ignore him...don't give him the satisfaction smile, walk away...if you really can't go to HR

Would it be possible for you, OP, to approach this matter from the angle of 'difficulties with imperfect communication caused by the virtual medium, working with Microsoft Teams etc.,' and raise this with HR as an area for you, and maybe colleagues in a similar situation, to problem-solve. You could say you've been wfh for 7 months now and like it, but find certain exchanges and discussions can be hard to read and possibly get misconstrued, and you think face to face was much easier. One can't judge attitude and body language so well, and hard to get clarification of what people have intended.

You could say that you think a client did make a wholly inappropriate and graphic sexual comment to you, and that your boss has underplayed its significance and then he had suggested that you had misconstrued what was said and also misconstrued the client's demeanour in a later meeting. You could suggest that the online medium makes reading attitude more difficult, and your boss may have failed to see how shaken and uncomfortable you were made to feel by the client. And incidentally, the online medium has also affected your boss differently, since he has taken to increasingly introducing personal references to his wife and home life into professional discussion, as if he thinks he has to be extra personable. All this just interrupts the flow of business and what you need to be doing. Raising objections feels harder via a screen.

Basically, paint what has happened as problems with online caused by longer and longer time wfh and normal work relationships being distorted. Attribute abnormality of situation to boss error of judgement, and, yes, you are very perturbed by references to sex; you are not sure if it was an attempt to belittle you by the client. Btw, was 'wanking ' said by client online? Has boss underplayed importance as you weren't in same room as client?

(Btw apologies if I've mis-represented workplace procedures as I have never worked for a big company or in an office)

If a client had said that to me, I would have told my boss immediately and if he didn't deal with it, I would have gone to HR immediately, too.

There are no circumstances whatsoever in which a reference to masturbation is acceptable in a professional meeting.

I think I would be going to HR.

And I agree with the pp who said when you speak to him say "how was your weekend with Marjorie".

Thanks for your advice. I actually think framing it as an online/WFH problem is a good idea. The client was weird online and all the weirdness would not exist if we were just working in the office.

Do I need to take it to HR? Or do I speak directly to Boss? I can record the Teams call if that makes any difference.

Hmm, this is creepy and weird. I think that by mentioning that the client, his good friend, was sexually inappropriate to you, this might have triggered a 'good old boy' sexist reaction in your boss where he's thinking "Dave is a great guy. Zippy must be one of those mad feminazi women who accuse men of harassing them. #MeToo has gone too far, men are persecuted these days just for saying hello to a woman. I'll have to put distance between us because next she'll be accusing me if I do something innocuous."

So basically your boss is a sexist pig.

yupp. as @francobranco articulated very well

Instead of feeling that his employee shouldn't have been put through that, he feels defensive as a man

Ok, I have spent the afternoon writing an email to HR - won’t send it til tomorrow so I can sleep on it.

Feeling really sad about the prospect of blowing up a good working relationship by going over Boss’s head. He will hate it and I think feel quite betrayed. Like I said, we’ve got on so well up til now.

However, the seriousness of the wank thing and weirdness of the wife comments have really ground me down this weekend.

He's the one who has sabotaged the working relationship and his behaviour is unprofessional. Try not to lose any sleep over him. You think more of him than he does of you.

Is the Darling Wife friends with Wanker too?

I don’t know if the Darling Wife is friends with the Wanker client, but will certainly have met the Wanker.

How much do you like your job, OP? I honestly think I’d be inclined to just see if this current situation blows over rather than risk escalating it. Reconsider taking it further if you still feel unhappy/uncomfortable in a few more weeks.

@Notarealmum

How much do you like your job, OP? I honestly think I’d be inclined to just see if this current situation blows over rather than risk escalating it. Reconsider taking it further if you still feel unhappy/uncomfortable in a few more weeks.

I agree with this comment.

I’d seriously reconsider sending an email to HR if I were you. If I was you, I would start recording every meeting you have from now on and monitor the situation that way. Before the next meeting I would send an email to your boss saying “Hi. Hope you’ve had a good weekend. Just to let you know that from now on I’ll be recording and saving every work related teams meeting that I have. The incident with xxxx back in xxxx has made me realise that it’s important to monitor any and all workplace conversations I have in the future for my own protection. Best wishes. See you on xxx

Then before every meeting you say “before we begin just to reiterate that I’m recording this conversation” I think that then sets a professional boundary. You then keep it work based and don’t mention any personal life things at all

I don't know anything about the world you work in, but I would be inclined to wait a few weeks and see if things blow over with your boss. I would make a complaint to HR about the wanker if I thought something of a practical nature could and should be done about him.

I suspect that your boss had a word with wanking client, who may have thrown it back on you and said you were "coming onto" him so he had to put you back in your place, or something.
And boss, being male, has believed wanking client rather than rely on his own experience of working with you. Either that or his DW was in on said conversation and has decided that you are A Danger to her marriage.

All in all it does sound rather inappropriate.

One further thought is that boss might actually have a mistress on the side, or that his DW suspects he does, so he's being very faux-open with all his female colleagues to show her that she has nothing to worry about.

Either way I think you need to address it, but I would start with your boss himself before you go to HR.

What was the reason for mentioning the client's conduct to your boss?

I honestly despair of people asking this question. Because it's sexual harrassment and you don't have to put up with sleazy men at work, whether they are your boss or client.

And your boss sounds like a twat who doesn't know how to deal with it.

Thanks for all the comments, I haven’t sent anything to HR yet but it is written.

I think I am most pissed off that Boss has never referred to or passed comment on the wanking client. Boss hasn’t said what happens if/when we have more work for client etc.

Either way I think you need to address it, but I would start with your boss himself before you go to HR.

That’s my instinct but I have no idea how to it. It feels very delicate. I really can’t revisit the wanking client with him in case he accuses me of harassment/sexual overstepping.

I would put it in an email so the conversation is documented and copy in HR.

Basically say that you would like it noted that you have raised concerns about inappropriate sexual comments made by this client and that you would like him to consider how this can be dealt with going forward.

I’ve sent it to HR - we’re speaking tomorrow. My main request will be that Wanker client isn’t left with anyone vulnerable. I’ll ask for some strategies to deal with meetings Wanker client is in.

More complex to know what I am asking for in terms of Boss, but I will say I am concerned about Teams call for my appraisal (do not want to deal with Boss Wife during that).

Good luck for today @ZiggyStarburst
Let us know how you get on!

He’s been having inappropriate conversations with another woman at work. He’s pretending to his wife it was you hence the mention of drinks/ weekend conversations.

Thanks @Trisolaris really appreciate that.

I have spoken to HR today and yesterday. They were pretty Unimpressed with the wank comments, obviously. They are way more circumspect about Boss’s behaviour for obvious reasons.

We’ve agreed that an email will be circulated reminding everyone about confidentiality on calls and the need to disclose who is in the room.

They want to get Boss to speak to client and say Wank comments are not ok. I am resisting and have said I will do that.

Imo, you've handled it perfectly, OP, by stating that your concern is that a vulnerable person might be shocked by such inappropriate comments. We know from threads on MN that people have indeed truly felt distressed and demeaned by being on the receiving end of sexual language and they have felt threatened by a potential prospect of actual sexualised behaviour/ overtures. Why should you have to carry this burden of knowing something quite serious has happened, carrying it by yourself and with little back-up from your boss!.

Speaking personally, sometimes, I have wondered if some individuals have spoken about sex to me frankly and impertinently in order to gauge how broad minded I might be and whether I will feel like talking about sex, and whether that might denote sexual interest in them. The description of vulnerable person could match a young impressionable intern, and I think you have a duty to flag up client's comments, because you and your boss could miss you had in the event that the client goes on to double up on the inappropriateness of his conduct and really cause distress and harm to a co-worker/colleague.