To f**king hate mornings since DC have gone back to school. AKA why is my 7.5yo so angry all the time?

[CityDweller]

Mornings with DD (7.5, yr 3) are so horrible and I'm at my wits end about how to make them better. She will always, without fail, get really angry at some point during the morning routine. Be it about putting on her uniform ('it's stupid. I hate having to wear uniform'), stopping what she's doing so we can leave the house ('it's not fair, I only got 2 seconds to do X...'), or just at us reminding her what she needs to do ('why are you always so mean to me?').

I know the reason, because this has only been an issue since she's been back at school - she loved her morning routine in lockdown/ holidays - loads of time to get up slowly (she likes reading in bed in the mornings), eat a leisurely breakfast, get on with the eleventybillion projects she always has on the go and generally set her own agenda for the day.

But I don't know what to do to make it better. We've tried it all: getting up earlier; setting various alarms with 'fun' ringtones on my phone so she knows when it's time to get up/ put shoes on/ etc; sticker charts to earn rewards she really wants; taking away TV in the afternoons if she gets angry in the morning. NOTHING WORKS. It's like she's subconsciously picking fights so that we get cross with her so that she can then get indignant/ upset that we're so horrible to her.

We sat down and had a long chat about it over the weekend (i.e. when no one was cross) and thought we'd come up with a good solution that we were all happy with. But it hasn't worked because this morning ended up in another row. She's so flipping unreasonable and nothing we say seems to make her understand that it is within her power to make mornings nicer for everyone.

So, wise mumsnetters. Tips?

Removal of things after school if she can't behave in the morning?

Is she having a big drink of water with breakfast? I know I'm cranky as allllll hell itself until I've had a good drink of water

Tried the removal of things (TV). Makes no difference. If anything it seems to give her more ammunition to be pissed off ('you're so mean to me', etc)

Yes, she drinks a lot of water at breakfast. And the anger can happen at any point in the morning routine, so I'm pretty sure it's not hunger-related.

We introduced a sticker chart for not crying. So if dd gets up and out of the house without causing a fuss then she gets a sticker. 4 stickers in one week gets a reward. Also learning to ride a bike and going to school on her bike worked wonders too. It seems to motivate her. We removed as many conflicts/demands as possible. So theres a pictogram on the fridge so she chooses her lunch the night before. She chooses her clothes the night before.

Related topic: I have boight my hidden chimp and we are working through it together to help her regulate and control her emotions.

My DD (8) is not a morning person. She needs time to wake up slowly before she's in a bearable mood. So I gave her a choice, either I let her sleep in to 640 but she has to get up and do everything she is told without complaining or I wake her at 615.

it's stupid. I hate having to wear uniform
Yes darling. But your look even more stupid going to school naked/in your pjs.
it's not fair, I only got 2 seconds to do X...
Ok, then tomorrow I'll get you up earlier. Or I know, but you can look forwards to doing X after school.
why are you always so mean to me?
Because I love you and I don't want you to get rotten teeth/feel bad because you've forgotten x etc.

She's only 7. Dress her if she needs you to. Give her an extra hug if she needs it. Do you offer her a choice for breakfast? It sounds silly, but maybe she'll feel like she has some control over her life if she can choose (from a limited choice!)

Thanks @StrictlyAFemaleFemale. We tried the sticker chart and it didn't work. I thought it might have been because the reward wasn't significant enough for her, so I suggested this morning a bigger rewards (something she really, really wants to do), but she still got flaming angry with me when it was time to put shoes on and leave the house .

Thanks for the book tip. DD is a big reader, and she loves getting stuck into a 'project', so this might really appeal to her as something we can work through together.

I’m actually really relieved to read this.

So sorry OP, I realise this is no help whatsoever, but I thought I was the only person with a 7 year old who still can create a mini tantrum over nothing and who claims “you all hate me” .

How is she when she comes home from school? Is she generally in a better mood?
Is she finding being back at school tough in general?
Does she have friends that she’s excited to see?
Do you think she’s anxious or nervous about going to school hence the stalling/picking fights

@SahmedOut
Yes, we honestly do reply in that sort of way. I try to do the 'how to listen to kids' approach too so that she feels 'heard'. I start every morning by giving her a massive cuddle. But she is still.so.cross!

Breakfast - she gets to choose. That was a sticking point in the mornings (her refusing to tell us what she wanted in time) so this weekend we drew up a breakfast chart where she picks all her breakfasts on a Sunday night. That has helped...

But you're right - I think it boils down to agency and control. That was the idea behind setting the alarms so that she would know when she needed to get up/ get dressed/ etc without us telling her what to do. But when the 'putting shoes on' alarm went off this morning she just kicked off 'those stupid alarms aren't working. They're just making me cross'). SIGH

Just a thought, would a reward at the end of school work?

If it is about school and something about being back at school is annoying her (more work, having to sit still, socialising), could you reward being at school and talk up how good it is to be at school at pick up time?

I've no advice (sorry) but just to say my DS was exactly the same in year 3, he was horrible every morning and would shout that he hates school, he didn't want to go, I was horrible, uniform was horrible.. on and on. He wasn't being bullied (I checked so many times) and I wondered if it was the big jump from being the oldest in infants to the youngest in juniors and maybe harder work etc.

What cured it in the end, was lockdown! 6 months off school when he was desperate to go back has meant he has stopped saying he hates it which I know is a rubbish resolution, I just wanted to tell you you're not alone

Ah @everythingthelighttouches. Sorry to hear you're dealing with it too.

@SalmonEile. She likes school fine and has friends. I think she finds it a bit boring (she's quite bright and doesn't enjoy the repetitive nature of a lot of the learning). So I don't think it's so much a dislike of school as that she'd rather be doing her own thing, to her own agenda. She comes out of school fine (mostly, sometimes can be a bit grumpy because so-and-so wouldn't play her game, or whatever, but no big issues). We have issues again around bedtime though...

My 7.5yo is exactly the same and she's home educated. I'm endlessly frustrated but not too worried. Her brothers went through a similar phase a little older, about 8 I think but I've obviously wiped it from my memory.

It feels like you've lost them and I catastrophise and let it affect my mental health, but it's a phase that does pass/ease with lots of love and consistency. Punishment never seemed to make much difference, but consistent, natural, unemotional consequences did, and letting them see your disappointment and frustration but continued love.

I think you just have to tough it out. My hair is very grey now...

Yes @IToldYouThisBefore. Lockdown was brilliant at the beginning for this reason - not having to be anywhere at anytime and she really loved home learning. To start with. By the end she was fed up of it and wanted to be with her friends. Alas that sentiment hasn't carried through into going back to school. She was like this from day 1 of this new term, despite us reminding her about how much she's missed being around her friends, etc.

@Gentleness. Thank you - that's really reassuring. I did wonder if it was just an 'age/ stage' thing. I'm trying really hard to be loving and sympathetic with her. It's hard though when she's so f**king unreasonable and throws around accusations about us being mean or blaming her for everything or whatever.

How much sleep does she get? Is she very tired?

I have a DD in year 3 too and she's not in the best of moods at the moment. She gets pretty upset over some really little things.

I just think life is hard at the moment. They have been through so much this year. They are at an age where they understand a lot of what going on but have no control. It's scary. All the talk is of a nasty virus killing people, how we have to be carful we don't get it, or their Grandparents.

Does she do any sport or exercise? Any other kind of mindfulness activities? Talk to the school, they have all been working on mental health of primary school children. They may be able to help.

Ah, I have one who sounds almost exactly the same. Have come to the conclusion that it can be normal. Again she is bright and loves doing own projects, deffo not being bullied, but just not a morning person and finds repetitive nature of school hard.

My dh is good at silly jokes and getting a response out of her eventually in the morning (me less so!) Not entering into a debate and 'floating her firmly but compassionately' through the morning routine is what works here. Also organising nice things to look forward to after school improves the mood.

It's so hard! We had to have a conversation about things you can control and things you can't.

She was making herself upset, and going to school upset because she was railing against the unfairness of having to get up early to go to school. She conceded that it wasn't making her happy and she was starting the school day miserable. I had to point out that school is non-negotiable, she has to go and getting angry about it is pointless as all it does is make her unhappy. Also that I can't change her timetable so she should complain to her teacher every day rather than me. We have currently reached a truce because she accepts that I can't change it either and she would never dare complain to her teacher

Patience and repeating you need to do x (don't ask her to do it, as then she can say no,) and she'll probably get used to it. Then it will be half term and you can start all over again.......

I'd think about getting her an Alexa or similar device for Christmas, I know mine are more likely (but not a dead cert) To wake up less grumpy if they've set their own alarm and it's not me waking them up. You can set it to music too or something gentle. A regular alarm doesn't have the same affect as Alexa, I suppose because they can verbally set it themselves and it gives them some control and it's not just a beep beep beep.

With my 7 year old, if she hasn't woken up with her Alexa, I physically lift her out of bed by her armpits, and then dress her myself while she is still half asleep, including putting her shoes on. If she has woken herself up she does dress herself but on these tired mornings it's a lot less stressful all round to physically dress her. Mine is dyspraxic and ADHD though so independently she won't remember her own shoes and will take forever.

My 7 year old is highly motivated by any novelty every day item, so a reminder of new cereal for breakfast, bear Yo-yo's for her snack, a new toothpaste flavour, a new pencil to take to school today etc is usually enough to stop her from spiraling into a bad mood. I have things like secret boxes of breakfast biscuits and a whispered promise of one of those when she is refusing to get out of bed will usually do the trick.

Mornings are definitely harder when she has a later night, is your DD sleeping ok? I sympathise with her as I always struggle to function before 12pm myself.

Have you tried doing nothing and letting her have the natural consequences of all her decisions? This works well sometimes to "reset" my child.

So you make sure you do everything you need to get out of the house on time, and then its up to the child to do their part. If they don't then whatever is the consequence happens.

Ie, ask her once what she wants for breakfast. If she doesn't tell you "Sorry, I asked what you wanted for breakfast and you didn't answer me, now you only have time for toast".

If you are late for school, you give the reason "X decided she didn't want to wear shoes today and so we were late".

I find that I only have to do this once, every so often to get abit more co-operation. I found that I was trying so hard that it just made things worse and added power to the situation. (Once took child to school in pjs and she had to get changed in car because she wouldn't get ready- that only had to happen once).

I sympathise though, some how we always seem to get the worse of them

Is there anything going on at school?

@user27378 funnily enough DD mentioned an Alexa as something that might help her with her mornings. I'm not keen though, for various reasons, and it's out of budget right now anyway.

Re. sleep. She gets around 10.5-11hrs a night, so not terrible but she could probably do with more. But going to bed or lights out earlier doesn't help. She'll just lie awake (quietly) until some point between 8.30 & 9pm (sometimes later) regardless of her light being out at 8pm at the latest. She then gets woken up at 7.40ish.

Thing is @Babycrackers, the natural consequence of her dragging her heels would be not getting to school at all (if we didn't tell her to get up she'd lie in bed reading for hours, a consequence she'd be quite happy about). At some point we have to say 'shoes on' or 'time to leave now' and that just triggers her getting angry.

I did threaten last week to leave without her and go into her classroom and tell her teacher why she wasn't with me. But that just seems to rile her up, rather than incite compliance.

Oh FFS OP - woman up and parent the child instead of indulging her!

If she’s bright then of course stickers aren’t going to work - she’s 7.5 not 3! Why are you offering her rewards for getting up and out in the morning - it’s a legal requirement not a choice!

Her alarm goes off (just a normal alarm, stop the “fun” noises), she gets up and dressed (assume she bathes/showers in the evening). Then downstairs for breakfast. Brush teeth/hair/shoes on and OUT. If she whinges ignore her or say “not my fault, blame the government”.

None of this explaining “because I love you, darling” - just do it!

Once she realises you’re not rising to her behaviour she’ll get bored. Stop the rewards and punishments - once she gets home the morning is forgotten about and she can relax and read and do her projects.

My year 2 child is like this at the moment - particularly the bit about thinking everyone is getting at her all the time. I'm all ears for suggestions but having a morning tick list of what needs doing is currently helping. Once she has ticked off the things that need doing - teeth, clothes etc then she can read/play until time to go