To f**king hate mornings since DC have gone back to school. AKA why is my 7.5yo so angry all the time?

[CityDweller]

Mornings with DD (7.5, yr 3) are so horrible and I'm at my wits end about how to make them better. She will always, without fail, get really angry at some point during the morning routine. Be it about putting on her uniform ('it's stupid. I hate having to wear uniform'), stopping what she's doing so we can leave the house ('it's not fair, I only got 2 seconds to do X...'), or just at us reminding her what she needs to do ('why are you always so mean to me?').

I know the reason, because this has only been an issue since she's been back at school - she loved her morning routine in lockdown/ holidays - loads of time to get up slowly (she likes reading in bed in the mornings), eat a leisurely breakfast, get on with the eleventybillion projects she always has on the go and generally set her own agenda for the day.

But I don't know what to do to make it better. We've tried it all: getting up earlier; setting various alarms with 'fun' ringtones on my phone so she knows when it's time to get up/ put shoes on/ etc; sticker charts to earn rewards she really wants; taking away TV in the afternoons if she gets angry in the morning. NOTHING WORKS. It's like she's subconsciously picking fights so that we get cross with her so that she can then get indignant/ upset that we're so horrible to her.

We sat down and had a long chat about it over the weekend (i.e. when no one was cross) and thought we'd come up with a good solution that we were all happy with. But it hasn't worked because this morning ended up in another row. She's so flipping unreasonable and nothing we say seems to make her understand that it is within her power to make mornings nicer for everyone.

So, wise mumsnetters. Tips?

@LaLaLandIsNoFun. No, I genuinely don't think so. I just think she'd rather be doing her own thing.

@DimityandDeNimes because that approach ends up with everyone shouting at each other and it's a really unpleasant way to start the day for everyone. Believe me, I've tried the battering ram approach and it doesn't work.

One of my DTs was exactly like this in Y3. The tiniest thing would set her off, tying her tie the wrong length, ponytail not in the right place, her sister breathing next to her...

She has mostly grown out of it but it was bloody stressful. One of he biggest changes I made was to say to them that you need to be ready to leave by 8.15, if you're not you're going to school naked / in your pj's and I am not asking you again'. I was so tired of the sound of my own voice and this gave them back an element of control.

Agree with Dimitry. I think the agency and listening to some kids works really well, but my middle one needs me to be brisk and firm. And to be honest, it’s happening anyway so if you model getting on with it , that might help. And no sticker charts.

Have you tried getting her up later instead of earlier?

I know it sounds counter intuitive but it works better for some personality types because there simply isn't time to get distracted - everything happens on autopilot and there's absolutely no time to start dicking about doing projects or reading (and especially no turning on any kind of screen).

My kids have to leave the house at 6:30am and I wake them at 6. I experimented with waking them at 5:45 a couple of years ago but not for long - 6 works best. Within that half hour they get up, washed, dressed (showers happen in the evening), chose and make and eat breakfast, teeth, fill water bottles, put sandwich boxes from fridge into bag, grab fully charged mobile phone from it's overnight station in the living room in the case of the teens, get mask, put coat and shoes on and are heading out of the door to the bus. Nothing else - no time to divert.

Bags are packed, sandwiches made and clothes chosen the night before (we don't have uniforms thankfully).

Worth a try. My youngest is 9 but we've been doing it this way since he was a baby and his oldest sibling was 6.

My DD (9) is the same. For her though it's because she needs time to transition from one task to the next. She can't just change with no notice.

Like your DD she loved lock down as there was no pressure to be up and out within a set timescale.

So what we had to focus on was helping her learn to transition from one task to the next. Started with a visual timetable of tasks needed in the morning but breaking it down in to small chunks. Looking everything out in advance the night before so no last minute hunting for stuff. Lastly a massive load of patience on our part.

We are getting there. More good mornings than bad now.

I also have a 7.5yo who isn't at her best in the mornings. I've already been through this with her big brother and the following seem to help:

• She lays out her uniform and packs her bag the night before.

• We have a poster up in her room with a picture and word list of everything she needs to do in the morning (wake up, brush teeth, have breakfast, get dressed, fill your water bottle, brush your hair, put on your shoes, put on your coat, feed the hamster). It stops them asking me what to do next every 5 minutes.

• After she's done all her jobs then she can do whatever she likes until it's time to go. No faffing, reading, TV or playtime before that.

• Pocket money is paid weekly at 20p per day, with 5p deducted if I have to remind them to do something on their poster or the jobs aren't finished by 8.15 and the whole 20p lost if they fuss.

• Homework, spellings and reading are all done the night before as soon as they get in from school so there's no last-minute panics.

Sorry if that's all obvious stuff!

Yeah, I think I am anyway going to get rid of the sticker chart because it's not working and just seems to lead to more upset when stickers aren't earned.

I will try the brisk, firm and 'yes, wearing uniform does suck', etc, approach again. I think maybe I'm too quick to get sucked into her mood - she gets cross, I get cross with her for being cross with me, she gets cross with me for being cross with her for being cross with me. [Vicious circle emoji]

And now I ponder it I wonder if having our talk about it this weekend and 'making a plan' has done more harm than good in that it's made it into a really big deal. Perhaps a more disinterested approach would help take the fuel out of it all. I have to say that the 'sorry, this is just how it is' attitude is one that I generally adopt with the DCs. But for some reason this whole morning debacle is really getting to me as I hate starting the day like this.

Hey OP. My DS (6) gets really grumpy / angry first thing in the morning sometimes just because he's really hungry and doesn't recognise it. We ignore the comments and behaviour and I just put breakfast on the table as quickly as possible. He's then like an angel and then realises he was starving and apologies.
Could she just be really hungry on waking and need food?

I've been thinking a bit more. Is the real problem the anger? It sounds like she will do the things you ask in the end, just grumpily. I have vivid memories about childhood anger, being told not to be angry and the anger being treated as if it is both terrible and unreasonable.

Anger is a typical response to situations that we don't like. Probably it's normal. It's also something that triggers an over reaction in most of us. I've been observing this in myself and my relationship with my angry girl who is so like me it's frightening. I don't have any answers, but I'm thinking I need to be better at letting her anger roll off me instead of feeling like it's ruining our life! It's just anger...

Does she play any computer games like roblox or minecraft?

I have a similar problem with a child of similar age and I'm beginning to think those games as the issue in the background

Might it help to let her eat breakfast before she gets ready? Or give her some slices of apple etc to nibble on while she's getting ready? When my ds gets angry, 9 times out of 10 he is hangry. Immediately he gets some food into him (well before he's begun to actually digest it!), he's much much nicer!

Ha, I think we cross posts saying the same thing!

When kids are calm, they are perfectly capable of seeing "unfair" things like school uniform are part of life and nothing practical can change.

@IwishIwasyoda

Hey OP. My DS (6) gets really grumpy / angry first thing in the morning sometimes just because he's really hungry and doesn't recognise it. We ignore the comments and behaviour and I just put breakfast on the table as quickly as possible. He's then like an angel and then realises he was starving and apologies. Could she just be really hungry on waking and need food?

I'm impressed your 6 yo noticed they've been grumpy and apologises. A lot of adults wouldn't have that level of insight.

when does she go to bed?
tiredness can have a great effect on mood in children imo.

Cross-posted! Ds is 12 and he still doesn't realise it's hunger-related. In fact he finds it annoying that anyone might think his temper is ever food-related rather than fully justified crossness . But the post-food mood change is undeniable!

"and generally set her own agenda for the day."

Well that was a mistake, if theres another lockdown maybe try to keep a structure

My younger one is not going to be getting a treat at lunch if she plays up. It happened today, I've told her there is no treat, but now feel guilty for her reaction when she opens her lunch.

It is hard. But if she's doing it to get a reaction, then my advice would be not to react at all for a few days, until she realises she might as well just get on with it.

My DD is the same age and we have the same issues. There is a hormone surge at this age which might explain what’s going on, can’t remember the name of it, but it is a thing. Making it tougher is DD11 and her period related shoutyness and me perimenopausal. My DH is stuck in the middle of us all!

What are you doing in the morning? Would it help if you got up 10-15 minutes earlier, got dressed, cup of tea/coffee to mentally prepare yourself for the forced jolliness and tongue biting?

That sounds horrible.
Some people (including me) are just grumpy in the morning. I would maybe try to make mornings as stressfree as possible: clothes laid out, a choice of two or three things (open questions are harder in the morning, if she hears the options she'll make her mind up quicker. If she does want to go off list you can still accommodate), bag, instruments, pe kit etc packed before bed.
I would offer an immediate reward if the morning. I tend to say first thing: this is what we have to do this morning: eat breakfast, get dressed, check we have everything, put on shoes and coat. When have done all this and there is still time, you can (watch TV, play on tablet, read a book). This is a bit more tangible than a sticker chart and is a good excuse to remove any distractions from morning routine.
I would also, if it's possible for you, let them be late a few times so they experience the natural consequences of being late.

[quote CityDweller]@DimityandDeNimes because that approach ends up with everyone shouting at each other and it's a really unpleasant way to start the day for everyone. Believe me, I've tried the battering ram approach and it doesn't work.[/quote]
Why are you shouting? You’re the adult, model the behaviour you want from your child. She shouts, you ignore (I know you’re not a saint but once DD realises she can’t create a drama, she’ll tire of it).

Wind down the empathy; uniforms don’t “suck” they are a way of promoting equality and a sense of belonging amongst school children. “Get dressed, DD, and downstairs for breakfast.”

Your DD needs some boundaries, they will give her a sense of security that 7 year olds desperately need.

I think having tried the soft approach it is time for some tougher love!

Tell her firmly that you have tried to be nice and to reason with her but that going forward you are not going to tolerate her behaviour, and that if she feels that means you are not nice then she should reflect on how many other ways you have tried before you got to this point!

Be firm, ignore the tantrums, be happy and upbeat regardless of her actions, but if she persists, there have to be consequences that she won't like at all.

If you don't nip this in the bud now you will have horrendous teenage years.

Just one suggestion - if she has a project she wants to do or book she wants to read, suggest to her she writes down the idea and you will make time for it after school/at the weekend. you could even allocate a specific time “Thursday afternoon is free so you can do it then”.

My DD is similar about having “things she NEEDS to do” books/drawings/craft projects etc. The week is very busy so we try to have plenty of free time at the weekend so she can have some time that’s in her control. She likes writing down the ideas she has in the week as otherwise we reach the weekend and she forgets she wanted to do XyZ and then remembers at the end of the weekend when it’s too late...