To f**king hate mornings since DC have gone back to school. AKA why is my 7.5yo so angry all the time?

[CityDweller]

Mornings with DD (7.5, yr 3) are so horrible and I'm at my wits end about how to make them better. She will always, without fail, get really angry at some point during the morning routine. Be it about putting on her uniform ('it's stupid. I hate having to wear uniform'), stopping what she's doing so we can leave the house ('it's not fair, I only got 2 seconds to do X...'), or just at us reminding her what she needs to do ('why are you always so mean to me?').

I know the reason, because this has only been an issue since she's been back at school - she loved her morning routine in lockdown/ holidays - loads of time to get up slowly (she likes reading in bed in the mornings), eat a leisurely breakfast, get on with the eleventybillion projects she always has on the go and generally set her own agenda for the day.

But I don't know what to do to make it better. We've tried it all: getting up earlier; setting various alarms with 'fun' ringtones on my phone so she knows when it's time to get up/ put shoes on/ etc; sticker charts to earn rewards she really wants; taking away TV in the afternoons if she gets angry in the morning. NOTHING WORKS. It's like she's subconsciously picking fights so that we get cross with her so that she can then get indignant/ upset that we're so horrible to her.

We sat down and had a long chat about it over the weekend (i.e. when no one was cross) and thought we'd come up with a good solution that we were all happy with. But it hasn't worked because this morning ended up in another row. She's so flipping unreasonable and nothing we say seems to make her understand that it is within her power to make mornings nicer for everyone.

So, wise mumsnetters. Tips?

Btw OP I’m speaking in solidarity and from experience not an innate sense of superiority

@everythingthelighttouches

I’m actually really relieved to read this.

So sorry OP, I realise this is no help whatsoever, but I thought I was the only person with a 7 year old who still can create a mini tantrum over nothing and who claims “you all hate me” .

Me too.

Although, if it helps, my eldest has now come out of this stage, and is (almost) a reasonable human being (she's nearly 9).

My youngest, however, who is nearly 7...bloody hell.

When my children complained about uniform I said "Mum and Dad don't make the rules on uniform, school make the uniform rules, if you don't like it you are welcome to write a letter to Mrs xx and explain your issues to her" that shut them up!!

No nonsense approach. Never ever ever rise to the tantrums. Don't repeat yourself more than 3 times. State clearly the task she needs to do and then leave the room.

DS was the worst for getting ready but he just gets on with it now. He has no choice as he won't get the attention and 'poor you' from me!

Hmm, mine is the same age but we don't have any issues in the morning. Might well be luck :) but in case it's helps, here are our morning rules:

No screens in the morning, ever.
No doing anything else until all the morning jobs are done (up, dressed, breakfast, teeth, bag - whatever). Not even academic stuff, not reading, nothing.

Get up as late as possible without having to rush, no need to be up an hour before school if it's only a ten minute walk to get there.

Oh yes, also if they wanted to finish playing/start a craft etc then we would write it down on a sticky note and stuck it to the front door. This distracted them from any tantrum and made them feel a bit more in control. Also I always left the game/craft etc they were doing out so it was there when they got home.

We also had races of who could get ready first and we played beat the song, so they had to be ready before the song ended.

And I now make them get dressed before breakfast. It just seems to save soooo much time! We use a tea towel tucken in their jumper

Could you try an earlier bedtime. 15 minutes earlier tonight, if she’s still cranky tomorrow it’s 30 minutes earlier on Sunday night, until she either goes to bed early enough that she’s not tired in the morning or she realises that she may well end up going to bed at 5pm. (Obviously she will not be going to bed at 5pm)

I do think at 7 she is still so young, she should be asleep early. I also know I’m cranky if I’m tired.

You need to lay down the law - lots of punishments for her bad behaviour. Ignore the "you hate me" bullshit.

The fact is, a lot of kids loathe school. The logic of getting up at the crack of dawn every day to go to a place you find tedious and unpleasant is beyond many children, indeed a lot of adults dislike the fact they are effectively slaves to their employer. Get up, do this, do that, go home. If you don't do what we tell you, when we tell you, you will be punished. It doesn't make much sense in all truth. School is there to condition children to the harsh realities of the world: for most people, life is a constant struggle, having to do work you don't enjoy, and having no security.

If you dislike the idea of being stricter with her, consider this: how do you explain to her the logic of school, when she seems to be more effective learning at home?

Don't over explain either. It's boring listening to your mum bang on with all the rules and the whys!!
My favourite parenting phrase is "there are things you do do and things you don't do"

Thanks for all the further responses and ideas.

Just quickly. No, she doesn't play any video games at all. No screens of any description in the mornings. She eats before getting dressed. I get up 90 mins earlier than everyone else (so I can do exercise and be showered, dressed, etc).

@Gentleness sounds like you v. much get it - thanks! @DimityandDeNimes - ok, not shouting, but everyone pissed off with each other. But it's so fucking irritating and I hate starting the day like this.

I really do need to practice not reacting to her negativity - you're all right on that. It's so bloody hard. Repeat to self: rise above it, rise above it!

@CityDweller as much as you don't work to acknowledge it...imo her attitude will generally be a knock on of yours! You need to get up earlier and get your stuff done and be relaxed and ready to actually help her and create a calm morning. I know she is 7 but intsead of... "go and get dressed" it needs to be "let's go get you dressed" and actually be there to help her and to diffuse the situation etc. Be present with her not just there to throw out instruction after instruction...then when things are all positive again you can slowly hang back until she is doing them herself.

@contrmary bleak!

as much as you don't work to acknowledge it...imo her attitude will generally be a knock on of yours! You need to get up earlier and get your stuff done and be relaxed and ready to actually help her and create a calm morning. I know she is 7 but intsead of... "go and get dressed" it needs to be "let's go get you dressed" and actually be there to help her and to diffuse the situation etc. Be present with her not just there to throw out instruction after instruction...then when things are all positive again you can slowly hang back until she is doing them herself.

This is great advice too.

@ooohbananas I get up 90 minutes before everyone else!

I'm super relaxed, in general, in the morning. I am the epitome of a morning person (unlike the rest of my family!). I like getting up and at em. And I work from home 4-days a week at the moment, so it's not like I'm stressed about getting to work.

Helping her through her routine seems to annoy her. She wants to be independent and do stuff herself and not be told what to do. Being in her room while she's getting dressed just seems to make her act out more - perhaps giving her an audience for flouncing about hating her uniform, etc?

How long did you try the getting up earlier thing? Because DS, who is a bit older, made the decision for himself to get up earlier. He gets up, gets dressed, makes his own breakfast etc. But then enjoys being able to just chill out with his book or watching TV before he has to leave for school and everyone is less stressed. However, while it worked, we did have to adjust bed times. He fits gong to sleep difficult at the b best of times, so there was she sort of jet lag that came in as a result of him going to bed too late for him to get up that early. But we're adjusting. And interestingly, he's going to bed at about the same time as he was before but he's no longer staying awake for 60-90 minutes - not least because, determined little sod that he is, he is no longer trying to stay awake (it's a standing joke around here that DS is the only person on the planet who can lie in a dark room, at the end of the day, without moving a muscle and STILL keep himself awake).

It's all take a week or two of adjustment though and he does sometimes need a serious lie in on a saturday! But I, for one, am loving the mornings a lot more.

@CityDweller

Mornings with DD (7.5, yr 3) are so horrible and I'm at my wits end about how to make them better. She will always, without fail, get really angry at some point during the morning routine. Be it about putting on her uniform ('it's stupid. I hate having to wear uniform'), stopping what she's doing so we can leave the house ('it's not fair, I only got 2 seconds to do X...'), or just at us reminding her what she needs to do ('why are you always so mean to me?').

I know the reason, because this has only been an issue since she's been back at school - she loved her morning routine in lockdown/ holidays - loads of time to get up slowly (she likes reading in bed in the mornings), eat a leisurely breakfast, get on with the eleventybillion projects she always has on the go and generally set her own agenda for the day.

But I don't know what to do to make it better. We've tried it all: getting up earlier; setting various alarms with 'fun' ringtones on my phone so she knows when it's time to get up/ put shoes on/ etc; sticker charts to earn rewards she really wants; taking away TV in the afternoons if she gets angry in the morning. NOTHING WORKS. It's like she's subconsciously picking fights so that we get cross with her so that she can then get indignant/ upset that we're so horrible to her.

We sat down and had a long chat about it over the weekend (i.e. when no one was cross) and thought we'd come up with a good solution that we were all happy with. But it hasn't worked because this morning ended up in another row. She's so flipping unreasonable and nothing we say seems to make her understand that it is within her power to make mornings nicer for everyone.

So, wise mumsnetters. Tips?

Maybe when she gets angry, don't give a reaction to it so she can't say 'you hate her' etc just simply say okay but I am disappointed in your behaviour. Maybe the guilt trip thing might work.

It sounds like your emotional reaction is what is feeding her. Im not saying this is a conscious thing on her part.

She gets cross and then you give her attention, either treats (bribes) hugs and soothing or snapping and shouting.

It might seem to you that these are different reactions and she should choose the nice ones and avoid the nasty ones, but its all the same to her. She has created excitement and got your attention.

Stop engaging. Stop reacting. Stop giving choices. Just do the same every day, same breakfast, same routine, same amount of oversight and reminders (You will know what the reasonable amount of this is based on her abilities)

Then when she huffs or shouts, just go “oh dear, hmm, ahhh, sounds tough”. Let her vent but dont feed it. If she doesnt get ready, take her to school in pajamas and without breakfast. (At least have that as your mindset) BUT no shouting, ranting, pleading, blaming, shaming....just matter of fact “OK DD that is what you chose” in a quiet voice.

If you struggle to not rise to the provocation, try playing DD morning bingo to yourself. One point for every rant you predicted. If you get five points you get a chocolate after she has gone into school.

Remember she will escalate the first few days as she will crave the excitement the two of you have both been generating in the morning so will get even more rantish if you stop reacting. Just stay the course.

Then to give her a little something to look forward to, as she adores reading, can you get some audible books to listen to in the car (or on headphones from your phone) on the way to school. If possible make it seem like you are getting the books as something for you. Dont big it up, just start one morning, again its not about a reward or bribe, its just something you are doing FOR YOU to have an enjoyable moment with her.

Oh and hold on for the teenage years, you will probably get through it now, but its coming back when she his 14 ish, so you really need to practice your not engaging as that age is a complete whirlwind. 🙃

I'm with @Dimity

My DS did the same, tantrums, delaying tactics, tears, slamming doors. One particularly bad morning I got pissed off, picked him up, put him in the car and drove him to school in his pjs. He was appalled and hasn't done it since.

(I had his clothes in a bag and let him get dressed in the car. I didn't actually march him into school in pyjamas.)

You will find a way!! Hopefully some ideas on here might help.

Three more to add to the options list..

3 minute yoga. This changed my life, brought peace and calm to my mornings and gave us a magical extra 5 minutes in the morning even when it seems like we were rushing and late. www.yogajournal.com/lifestyle/good-morning-yoga-poses-jumpstart-kids-day Mkae it fun.. we called on the wobbly table and all did it together.

Bach Flowers: 5 drops morning and evening for everyone.. it might be worth looking into exactly which combination if the 36 options might work best for you and for her but maybe start with www.boots.com/bach-rescue-remedy-dropper-20ml and add Holly to the mix.

As said above, get here to write a list of the projects she has in mind to do after school and maybe leave things put so it is ready when she comes home. Keep a notebook on the kitchen table, we also have a wipe clean board in the kitchen which is useful. If something gets written on there, it is not forgotten.

@CityDweller my son was like this. Awful in the mornings. It turned out to be anxiety causing it. It showed as "playing up" and misbehaving. I was getting SO stressed and angry with him but when I realised it was anxiety it was like a punch in the stomach.

Anxiety vs misbehaving need completely different parenting.
Could you find out what is bothering her? (I mean apart from living in a Global Pandemic and having all that on a young head)
Help smooth that out?

Much later we found out that my son was having side effects from his asthma medication (Montelukast / Singulair) that can cause anxiety, depression and sleep problems.
FDA warning on Montelukast

Maybe check that any medication she is taking aren't causing anxiety issues or sleep problems.

It's a fucker of a year, I'd be more surprised not to see anger somewhere leaking out.

If you haven’t got work to rush to after the school run have you considered letting her be late for school when she procrastinates? I think most 7yr olds would hate that, especially if you explain to her teacher why she is late in front of her.

My 7 year old dd a pain in the mornings. I just try my hardest to breath deeply and not rise to it. I find the best thing is to get it all over and done with quickly. So we chill out and have breakfast and then do getting dressed and teeth just before we leave, so the nagging and moaning/shouting bit only takes up the very last bit before we leave the house. Once we are out everything is fine again!

To follow on from earlier message, DS swears blind he is not hungry when he is acting out but mood immediately changes once he is fed and then when he has had time to reflect on it comes and gives me a hug with a 'sorry mummy I think I was just hungry'.

Lots of parents say their kids can't cope with tiredness. My DS can - he works through it - it is hunger that is so often the trigger for behaviour in our house which can veer between anger, grumpiness or even being teary. My son is not the only one - some of his friends are the same

My SD is a little like this too.

We find that the more attention we pay to the nonsense, the more she carries it on. Even if the attention is just her getting told off.

I think if you try and turn a blind eye to it and just make sure she's out the door on time, whatever fuss she's making, she'll soon cut it out.

This kind of conflict pans out thusly in our house:

Me: time to get your shoes on
DC: but I don't want to go to (insert destination here)
Me: no you don't, but get your shoes on anyway
DC: why are you always telling me to do stuff, you're mean!
Me: Yes I'm mean. Now get your shoes on
DC: it's so unfair! Why are you nagging me?
Me: because it's my job to torment you. Now get your shoes on

... and rinse and repeat. DC continue to moan but get up anyway and do whatever it was I asked. As soon as they get moving I lay off and ignore the whingeing, as they are now complying. Persevere and the level of pushback gradually dwindles.

Essentially, it's a combination of just continuing to insist that they do what you ask, without getting sidetracked. Agree with their negative comments rather than argue with them. It leaves them nowhere to go. Do it with a bit of humour and the drama de-escalates.

All that said, the school morning routine is hell for natural night owls. Don't be too hard on yourself OP, it's a tough grind.