School forcing 8am start for my SEN girl?

[emmapemma91]

So I’m having quite a lot of bother with my little girls school. She’s not settling in very well and becoming very distressed when going into school and can become aggressive.
She’s waiting on assessment for possible Autism. She’s 6 and in year 2.

She’s on a reduced timetable at the minute but the school are forcibly telling me they want her in at 8am to give her time to settle before her class come in at 8.45. I’ve told them each time my sons school taxi comes sometime between 8.15 - 8.25 and I can’t get her there, chase her around while she tries to run away, then carry her into school then be back in time for my sons taxi. Yet every day they say the same thing, she hasn’t settled and needs to be in 8am. If I miss his taxi I can’t get him to school as I don’t drive and it’s quite far away.

Is there any solution? I’m sick of fighting with the school to support my daughter.

[quote emmapemma91]@MayIJustAsk okay I’m being unreasonable so what’s the solution please?[/quote]
Have you filling in and submitted the request for a EHCP assessment?

Even if she doesn't need a ehcp she will be assessed. Then a EP will be called in to assess her. A EP can also inform the school how to meet her needs.

You be her advocate.

Thinking about the 7.50 drop off. Are you even able to drop her and just Leave?

One of mines not SEN but some days in the infants really really struggled to be left. Even in year 2.

@Legoandloldolls

I agree completely with pretty much everything you say, but it’s missing the point.

As much as one child may need that 15 minutes a day 1-1, it’s likely that other children have a need for TA at that time of day too. Dedicating that time to one child every day, no matter how much they need or deserve it, still takes it away from the other 29 Y2 children that need to be supported first thing in the morning.

Everything that has been said about why things are difficult for parents of SEN children and why some things aren’t reasonable are entirely understandable, but I guarantee that the school would be able to give equally as persuasive and understandable reasons as to why it’s impossible for them to meet a child’s needs in this situation without it being detrimental to an unacceptable level for the other children.

Anyway, surely the best thing for the child would be to be able to take part in the normal settling time that is registration, where the teacher has them all sitting down and talking together to start the day and explain what’s going to happen. If she misses that every day because she’s elsewhere with a TA and is then thrown straight from being upset into being expected to focus on a lesson, that’s not in her best interests. The school physically cannot give her the best start to the day if she isn’t there early because they can’t rewind time to ensure that she gets the same start (that is designed to settle children into school!) as everyone else.

@Staffy1

Just say, it's impossible, please stop going on about it.

"Going on about it" is the only way parents of children with SEN get any support at all.

You are always better applying for an EHCP yourself, I did, I won an appeal as well. School will find it very hard to "disagree" with you when they have her on a reduced timetable and want her in significantly earlier than everyone else! That's not an indication they are meeting her needs.

You cannot manage the 8am start what do they suggest? Resist the urge to solve their problems by moving your life around.

Now...about this reduced timetable...who implemented that? Because schools can't do it, even if you agree to it. Its an illegal exclusion.

Don't listen to them about the EHCP being too early our school said my son didn't need a plan two stages down from the EHCP...the law disagreed and he is now in highly Specialised Education.

If you can't do it you can't do it.
I do sympathise with me my DS hates school is on a reduced timetable but thankfully has reports that allows for regular breaks out of the classroom.
We had to scrimp to go private otherwise like your DD he would have been traumatised beyond repair trying to cope.
Are they giving her regular breaks out of the classroom? Has she access to any 1-1 time.
It is tough.

@Jellycatspyjamas

Dear God, there’s so little understanding of the duty the local authority has to support SEN provision. It’s really not the case that the OP should acquiesce to the demands of the school here, learn to drive, foist her child into school transport or unsettle her other child.

There are a dozen different ways to support children into school that don’t involve the child being there 45 mins early, or her mum being in two places at once. I’d be interested to know how the reduced timetable came about - all to often it’s used to edge children out of education, if they have put a part time timetable in place, it should form part of an EHCP which clearly sets out how they’ll support the child’s access to education.

These children and their families aren’t an inconvenience to be managed to suit the school.

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 Very, VERY well said!!! 👍🏻

*with you.

The OP cannot physically get her daughter there and ensure her son is able to get his taxi.

The school day starts at 8.45am, it's really awful that the OP is being told she's not acting in her daughter's best interests, she can ensure her daughter is there for the start of the normal school day and is also accommodating a reduced timetable. She has a responsibility to her son as well, to expect him to miss days at school and the taxi to have wasted journey is not a reasonable adjustment.

Unless the school can provide time travel, they really should not be insisting on an early start.

@Bupkis, I know, I am one. I meant the OP should tell the school the early start is impossible and to stop bothering her about it.

@emmapemma91

I would rather they use their resources to support her when she comes in at a normal time, as I’m very unsure what they would like me to do when I can’t be in two places at once.

School transport can only pick up from our home address. My partner works early shifts so isn’t home in the mornings.

How can school staff be in many different locations at once?

You do know that school staff are real people who are accommodating you and your child?
You may need extra help / child minder etc....?

[quote Staffy1]@Bupkis, I know, I am one. I meant the OP should tell the school the early start is impossible and to stop bothering her about it.[/quote]
I'm sorry @Staffy1!
I think the tone of some of the posters on this thread, led me to believe you were telling op to stop going on about it!!

But they aren’t accommodating her child are they, they are telling her she can only go in when it suits them and not supporting the family in trying to get proper support in place. How is that accomodating?

This thread is a handy reminder of just how little people understand what it's like trying to get an education for a child with complex needs, and just how much other parents seem to resent the reasonable adjustments that need to be made for some children to access an education.

You need your partner to ask for some flexibility at work to support your change in routine, or ask a good friend/relative/neighbour to help you. That is the solution here.

This thread is a handy reminder of just how little people understand what it's like trying to get an education for a child with complex needs, and just how much other parents seem to resent the reasonable adjustments that need to be made for some children to access an education.

A-bloody-men to this.

@Pbbananabagel

You need your partner to ask for some flexibility at work to support your change in routine, or ask a good friend/relative/neighbour to help you. That is the solution here.

That is the solution here. No, it really isn't

@Bupkis, that's ok, it probably wasn't that clear, reading it back!

OP, do all you can to get her assessed and moved to a SEN school, so much easier for her and you. You won't be made to feel like you're an inconvenience, which I found with a mainstream school.

@Bupkis

This thread is a handy reminder of just how little people understand what it's like trying to get an education for a child with complex needs, and just how much other parents seem to resent the reasonable adjustments that need to be made for some children to access an education.

Yep, the system is impossible and no one ever gets back to you.

There are a dozen different ways to support children into school that don’t involve the child being there 45 mins early

Really? I’d be very interested to hear you suggestions, could you list them please?

If a child is that distressed and aggressive coming into school of a morning that she needs extra time to settle in along with 1-1 attention, how can that possibly happen at the same time as letting her have the normal registration time that she deserves? It’s not fair to send a child directly from being upset into a lesson.

Its not about accommodating the child its about meeting the child's needs, reasonable adjustments.

I fought for years with schools over small adjustments that they just wouldn't put in. My son had virtually no support for his entire primary education and it was very very stressful for me.

The LA is now paying over £91,000 a year to fund a highly specialised school for him plus transport that takes 2 hrs a day so not cheap. I'm glad his needs are finally being met but I still maintain that mainstream schools making reasonable adjustments along the way would have worked. But instead his junior school turned him completely off education and caused complex PTSD instead.

The school seem to be doing this to meet their needs not your daughters. It would not (imo) be reasonable to expect a KS1 child to start school at 0800. Children need their sleep and you are your child's best teacher anyway. I would certainly apply for an EHCP; I would certainly keep a diary of everything from the child's perspective; your family needs; what the school has offered and try and put as much as you can in writing. Sadly, its the power of the pen that matters most at this stage.
We have 2 with EHCPs that we foster, and believe me, some of the hoops you have to jump through...... Be calm but persistent and focus on what the LA and school should be providing to meet your daughters needs.

I agree to nails, but you dont need to determent the other 29 kids. No one wants that. If the class TA cant be outside the class for 15 minutes, then someone else might. If they cant, in theory you get more funding and another TA in. But I know that no one funded a 1:1 ta for 1.15 hours a week.

However no where in law does it say meeting needs is cost dependant. That's the law. In reality school would find a reasonable adjustment that can work, if they cant then they need to spend their SEN funding, if goes over that 10k or what ever figure it is, then its ehcp time.

Getting in a hour early cant be the first choice of reasonable adjustment surely?

But more worryingly if you are a teacher ( I'm guessing you are) is excluding a child on a part time timetable a reasonable adjustment? Surely if you teach you must know this is a illegal exclusion?

How can it be ok to brake the law for one to benefit 29? If it's ok to break the code of practice then what other laws dont count in school?

This is the UK. It's not ok to say in 2020 "theres not a extra 5k to educate this kid, she has to go under the bus"

How can anyone do a degree in post grad in education and feel that is ok?

Do you believe every child has a right to a education? Or not the ones that need to extra effect, extra funding.

Then extrapolate that out. Should we look at vulnerable adults the same way? If they drain taxes then ignore the legal rights? If you do then extrapolate it out again. Your working hard paying your taxes, then one day you have a stroke. You become that drain on taxes.

There but for the grace of God go I.

Not you personally but we need to challenge what we are told and push back. If schools pushed back we would have more state SEN places etc accepting cuts for decades leads to kids falling out of education. You might think so what? Well, as adults you might pay for their dole money or prison fees maybe? Would you rather pay taxes into 15 minutes of TA time or a lifetime of income support.

It's not just one inconvenient 6 year old. It's her future if she is excluded. What happens to kids missing in education anyway? Statistically? What are their life chances.

Education is either important or it's not. It cant be important for middle class middle IQ little Johnny but not for Billy as pesky Billy was born with SEN. Or little Johny gets meningitis and suffers brain damage. Suddenly no one cares about him either.

Lots of room under that bus of indifference isnt there suddenly

I’m sorry if I sound obtuse, I really don’t mean to be and I’m not a resentful parent, I have a child with SEN too. But I’m coming at this from the perspective of a TA who would love to be able to do more to support children with SENs at my school, we simply don’t have the time or resources to do any more. It’s almost as frustrating as being in the parents position.

Can you take her in as soon as your son leaves in the taxi?

She would still be in before 8.45 but not the whole 45 minutes