School forcing 8am start for my SEN girl?

[emmapemma91]

So I’m having quite a lot of bother with my little girls school. She’s not settling in very well and becoming very distressed when going into school and can become aggressive.
She’s waiting on assessment for possible Autism. She’s 6 and in year 2.

She’s on a reduced timetable at the minute but the school are forcibly telling me they want her in at 8am to give her time to settle before her class come in at 8.45. I’ve told them each time my sons school taxi comes sometime between 8.15 - 8.25 and I can’t get her there, chase her around while she tries to run away, then carry her into school then be back in time for my sons taxi. Yet every day they say the same thing, she hasn’t settled and needs to be in 8am. If I miss his taxi I can’t get him to school as I don’t drive and it’s quite far away.

Is there any solution? I’m sick of fighting with the school to support my daughter.

Poor thing what support are they giving her when she is in there? How long is she doing each day?

Take some time now to get yourself a coffee and sit and relax for a bit. It’s important to look after you too

@Sirzy she’s there until 11.45. TA says she’ll ask her every 15 mins to come do some work otherwise she just leaves her under the table.

No wonder the poor mite isn’t settling then!

I would contact the senco and ask them what their plan is. At the moment is sounds like school is creating more problems that it solves

[quote emmapemma91]@Sirzy she’s there until 11.45. TA says she’ll ask her every 15 mins to come do some work otherwise she just leaves her under the table.[/quote]
That is awful. My son similarly struggles in a busy classroom and his mainstream school would never have done that. They gave him a 1:1 even without an EHCP so that he could be taken out of class to do work somewhere he could cope more. And used all sorts of tricks to get him engaged. You don't just leave a child under the bloody table and hope they magically become ready to engage.

Have they got anyone in to advise on strategies? In my area there is an autism outreach team who will come in to observe children and advise the school. There doesn't have to be a diagnosis in place, but the school do have to buy in their services. It would be worth finding out on your council's local offer page if something similar exists.

From what I can see you haven't actually asked the school transport people about collecting from the school?

These routes etc aren't set in stone, if people move or join half way through the year the routes have to change.

We had a similar situation and I mentioned it to the taxi driver and he just said 'no problem, I'll pick up the other student first'. If you don't ask you won't know for sure.

@Marmaladey really not sure you should be pontificating on here when you clearly know zero.

“Year 2 is pretty early to have an EHCP where autism is a factor, I feel.“

Noooo - not where a dc is school refusing and sitting under the table most of the lesson. Does that sound like all going swimmingly?!

Is it her dedicated 1:1?

This would be better in the SEN boards so others in your situation can help.

But it's pretty obvious your dd needs her own 1:1. Let's say a TA is £12 phone.

So £12ph 9-12 five days a week is £6660 pa.

It also costs around £4k ( but in most case much much less) to put a bog standard NT pa to educate.

4+6660= 10660 bare minimum to educate your dd.
Here is the issue. School have to prove they have spent the 10k on your dd AND they still needed more funding before they will get that extra £660. So that's why it's not their interests to educate this child.

They want that 10k to build a music school / market the school to keep it outstanding and full / landscape the school / buy books whatever. They get SEN funding for this purpose but it is not ring fenced. It just goes into the school pot. They might well have that extra 6660 but they dont want to spend it on SEN.

In tribunal the judge wants to see that the school has exhausted its 10k and it still wasnt enough in a nutshell to get a ehcp. However in my case that wasnt the case, it was because the school blocked all help. My son got a zero funded ehcp because the school insisted they could meet his needs in budget. They was upset that they had fiddled the book and he did get his ehcp and they got zero extra cash.

@Sirzy she’s there until 11.45. TA says she’ll ask her every 15 mins to come do some work otherwise she just leaves her under the table.

That’s absolutely appalling, no wonder she doesn’t want to go. They aren’t actually providing an education for her - they’re ignoring her probably in the hope that you’ll withdraw her.

In your shoes I’d be arranging an immediate meeting with the head teacher and putting in a strong complaint. They aren’t even trying to engage her. There are so many things they can do to help her - just as a starting point I’d be asking them to give her a space that she can settle and join the class when she’s ready - the TA could do bits of work with her outside the class, just 15 mins at a time, or play a game with her, build a relationship with her. Of course she now has a pattern of hiding in class so it’ll be sensitive work to help her out of that, but that’s their actual job.

I can’t believe professional people would see a child in that level of distress and not active try to help her. The HT would be seeing me daily until proper supports were put in place. What an utter disgrace.

TA says she’ll ask her every 15 mins to come do some work otherwise she just leaves her under the table.

They say all behaviour is communication and what is DD communicating here - that she can’t cope either with sensory overload from the busy classroom and/or she can’t do the work?

It’s disgraceful that the school haven’t tried more strategies under APDR; but most importantly they haven’t put in a request for assessment for an EHC plan; or the SENCO sat down with OP to help her write the letters! (Seeing as it is always better for the parents to be in the driving seat).

Never mind giving the school credit for coming up with a plan to be at school at 8 am, imo it’s negligence - not that OP will get anywhere with that line of thought! It’s better to concentrate on getting needs met.

The SENco seems to have a strained relationship with me. We used to communicate daily but she would always end the call with ‘just run everything past me first, it’s better for our relationship’. Since I applied for a EHCP and asked to be contacted by email for a paper trail I haven’t heard anything from her. The TA is the only person there for her at the minute. I also have a good relationship with the Family Support Worker.

[quote Onceuponatimethen]@Marmaladey really not sure you should be pontificating on here when you clearly know zero.

“Year 2 is pretty early to have an EHCP where autism is a factor, I feel.“

Noooo - not where a dc is school refusing and sitting under the table most of the lesson. Does that sound like all going swimmingly?![/quote]
Did you read my subsequent clarification of my comment? Where I apologised for those who misunderstood what I was saying?

@emmapemma91

You build up a time line of evidence. Make a note of all of this chronologically

Dd was diagnosed with ASD on x date
On y date she started at your school
By z she was have problems going in at 8.45
So the school said she had to start at 8
On x date the school moved her to a pt timetable
Today, as the last x days she has sat under the desk from 8-11.45 when her school day ends.
List all the adjustments the school has made

Send this is a email to the school. It's fine if its ignored. The thing is they dont contest it. Dont request acknowledgement or a reply.

If the LA refuse your request to assess this is your evidence. It is enough and would win any appeal hands down.

All you need to do is put a covering letter with it doing your dd chronological timeline from birth of SEN. Add her brothers SEN. State that making her leave at 11.45 is a illegal exclusion.

@emmapemma91

The SENco seems to have a strained relationship with me. We used to communicate daily but she would always end the call with ‘just run everything past me first, it’s better for our relationship’. Since I applied for a EHCP and asked to be contacted by email for a paper trail I haven’t heard anything from her. The TA is the only person there for her at the minute. I also have a good relationship with the Family Support Worker.

@emmapemma91

Everytime you talk to to the senco on the phone ( try not to, put it in writting) email her. Thanks for your call today where you said xyz.

This is also evidence.

Eg with my son.

"Thanks for the conversation today 2016 where you said you had started the process for assessment for a starement"

Because later on
"Thank you for asking me to sign the paperwork to give permission for my son to be seen by professionals as part of the assessment in 2017"

Then in the appeal room "the senco told me she had started the request in 2016 but it was until a year later when my appeal went in that I was asked to sign permission for this process to start"

Document everything.

Thank you I will do that! She hasn’t got a diagnosis yet we’re still waiting for an appointment for assessment, although the paediatrician strongly thinks she has. I’ve sent the paediatricians report in with the EHCP. The school have made contact with CYPS (same as CAMHS in our area) to try speed up the process a bit, as have I, twice. They keep going on about getting a diagnosis and although that would be useful my priority right now is to help her at school, I don’t think a diagnosis should make a difference. Either way she’s struggling and should be entitled to the same support.

Although you've had some pretty awful responses op, I'm glad you put this in the main boards rather than the sn boards after all.
It is often very quiet on the sn boards, and it had been heartening to read some of the very wise and thoughtful responses from those that 'get it'
It's also pretty enlightening on how many don't 'get it '

And yes, as someone hinted at uptgread - the way this school is acting looking like an attempt to illegally offroll your daughter.

@Marmaladey I don’t think I misunderstood what you were saying.

@LaLaLandIsNoFun the thing is she only started this school this September so it’s been a matter of weeks. She was on a part time timetable by day 2, they knew about her difficulties and still accepted her. I find it hard to believe they want to off roll her after 3 weeks!

@Legoandloldolls has given you some excellent advice. I strongly second to put everything in writing.

The school is struggling to meet your daughters needs, and they should be either supporting you with getting a EHCP so they can get the extra funding etc to be able to meet her needs or in the case of my son, telling the LA straight that they can’t meet his needs due to the environment and no amount of funding will help. At the time I was upset but then realised it was the best thing they could ever do for him as he got the support and correct school setting with minimal fight, but either way the school shouldn’t expect you to bring her in at 8am, that isn’t how the system works and this is probably one of the worst cases of mick take by the school I’ve heard in a long time.

I too feel that we are a very quiet corner and I get few answers on the SEN boards. I am on the long running chat thread but other questions I usually put on the main boards or even in the Staffroom, or e.g. Christmas for ideas for presents.

@hoxtonbabe do you have any idea of who I would contact in order to express my concerns the school cannot cope? I just don’t feel I’m being taken seriously as like I say she’s only been there a matter of weeks and it’s a new school. But I just don’t see her ‘settling in’ at all.

@emmapemma91 I would say contact the LEA SEND department. Make sure you express these concerns to the SENCO first (if you haven't).

You have DC with SEN, and have chosen not to work.

The clue department have called and they have a few spare clues. They'd like to offer you one. Heck, a half a clue would do.

@NikeDeLaSwoosh .. well, I could only work between the hours of dropping my daughter off and picking her up. If she doesn’t settle at school I don’t feel she’d settle in a nursery/childminders do you I mean if you know any jobs that fit them particular hours (don’t forget travel needs to be included in them since it would be public transport!) then please drop them below! I guess the jobs market is booming at the minute! Also hope the employers would be happy with me taking random days off when she gets sent home early because she’s too distressed, or for meetings at my sons school, or his CYPS appointments, or his physio and occupational therapy.

Never mind, I have such a luxury living off my partners shit wage and Carers allowance.