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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Presidential Debate season, let's stand strong together! (Trump thread #105)

957 replies

Roussette · 30/09/2020 10:01

Here we are!

Last thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4012464-The-Disunited-States-of-Trump-Trump-Thread-104?watched=1&msgid=100447404#100447404

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44
TheNorthWestPawsage · 02/10/2020 23:54

My DH is obsessed with the Lincoln Project videos and podcasts - to the point where he refers to all the regular contributors by their first names as if they're mates!

ludothedog · 02/10/2020 23:56

Yes, get well soon Mr Across.

On a more positive note CNN are now reporting that Trump is scared and neurotic (my interpretation) following diagnosis and so trip to hospital is more to reassure him rather than from medical necessity. So, in his case, more like man flu rahther than he is really unwell.

Heffalooomia · 03/10/2020 00:05

@TheNorthWestPawsage

My DH is obsessed with the Lincoln Project videos and podcasts - to the point where he refers to all the regular contributors by their first names as if they're mates!
Awww bless him😍
Lweji · 03/10/2020 00:13

They probably want to make sure there are no hidden signs.
As mentioned, the bloodsl clots are a worry, but not only.

BruceAndNosh · 03/10/2020 00:14

Post of the Day on Pray for Donald thread...

Yesterday 13:21DelilahDingleberry

I’m praying he makes a full recovfefe

Lweji · 03/10/2020 00:24

And his beloved stockmarket is going down. If it's fake, then did he expect it?

AcrossthePond55 · 03/10/2020 00:47

DH says thanks for the wishes! Relaxation, a news blackout, and Lorazepam will do the trick.

He's also supposed to talk as little as possible. I remind him of that every times he opens his mouth. 😆

lionheart · 03/10/2020 01:30

Hello Starcourt.

A stress free zone is one without Trump in it, that's for sure Across.

Best wishes to your DH. Smile

TheClaws · 03/10/2020 02:07

A few days ago (!!) I posted the below. I'll add (in bold) what I going to add originally - but I thought was I bit too 'out there'. It doesn't seem so now.

I've seen some Twitter posts about Comey et al. (I believe he's being interviewed by Senate Judiciary Committee today) and Republicans are outraged. I must admit to feeling a bit unsettled - too many norms have already been thrown aside, so what's the harm in another one? I feel the DOJ - headed by Barr - are going to arrest some high-profile people before the election. This would certainly appeal to any of his base that are wobbling a little in devotion - considering he hasn't "Locked anyone up!"

Actually I feel the election may not even go ahead, at least not on Nov 6.

And this tweet re: the suspension of campaigning. Right-wingers, led by Fox, are calling for this.

Jeff Greenfield @greenfield64 9hr

Does Biden suspend his campaign as Trump is quarantined? Is the White House failure to observe protocols a reason for Biden to continue his campaigning?

TheClaws · 03/10/2020 06:44

Nov 3 (How on Earth did I get that wrong?)

BruceAndNosh · 03/10/2020 07:25

Does Biden suspend his campaign as Trump is quarantined? Is the White House failure to observe protocols a reason for Biden to continue his campaigning?
Biden campaign said it was pulling negative ads on trump and only running positive pro Biden ones.
Trump campaign has run negative anti Biden ads since news broke. Apparently this is because Biden dared to give a (already scheduled) speech in which he was less than complimentary about Trump

BruceAndNosh · 03/10/2020 07:31

Last Saturday's (outdoor) Rose Garden nomination event has already been dubbed a Superspreader event with so far 7 attendees testing positive including 2 Rep Senators and Kelly Anne Conway. Might make the campaign think about those indoor rallies Trump have been having. (and those aircraft hangers ones aren't really outdoor, just draughty)

Roussette · 03/10/2020 07:38

Best wishes to your DH Across and come on here to chew the fat with as your DH is understandably a Trump free zone!
NorthW your DH sounds a very sensible man with his Lincoln Project obsession, I get obsessions about this orange clown!

I would love an answer to this question.

On the News this morning it's been announced that Biden has suspended all negative ads onTrump out of respect for the situation.

What would Trump have done if the situation was reversed?

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Roussette · 03/10/2020 07:39

So sorry Bruce, I was slow typing that and didn't see your post saying similar

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BruceAndNosh · 03/10/2020 07:49

Re Amy Barrett s confirmation via Senate...

Excuse my ignorance, but has Senate been remotely voting during pandemic?

Sleipnirthewonderhorse · 03/10/2020 07:55

Trump, Who Claimed Masks Are for Suckers, Blames the Military and Law Enforcement for Hope Hicks Getting COVID-19

Speaking to Sean Hannity on Thursday night after the news broke that Hicks had tested positive but before he and the first lady had gotten their results, Trump told the Fox News host, “You know, it’s very hard, when you’re with soldiers, when you’re with airmen, when you’re with Marines, and I’m with—and the police officers. I’m with them so much. And when they come over here, it’s very hard to say, stay back, stay back. It’s a tough kind of a situation.”

Mentioning his own test, Trump said, “We’ll see what happens. I mean, who knows? But you know Hope very well. She’s fantastic. And she’s done a great job.” Then he circled back to the alleged perpetrators. “But it’s very, very hard when you are with people from the military or from law enforcement, and they come over to you, and they want to hug you, and they want to kiss you, because we really have done a good job for them. And you get close, and things happen.”

www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/10/donald-trump-hope-hicks-covid-19

Roussette · 03/10/2020 08:08

I want to know the timeline on when Hope Hicks knew she had it, and what Trump then did, when he knew etc. It's very murky.

This tweet...
Palmer Report
@PalmerReport
No delicate way to say this: given Trump's poor underlying health, even if his moderate-to-severe coronavirus doesn't get any worse than it currently is, it's unlikely he'll ever fully recover. His odds of living another four years are now basically zero. He's disqualified.

Whilst I don't agree with the odds on him living, I do agree about recovery

Trump's health, his eating habits, his obesity, the fact he's quite possibly had mini strokes before.... I believe his health from now on will be severely compromised.

I know personally three people who have had it, all fit people younger than Trump and they got it early on. One is fine, one is middling and still gets tired sometimes, and one is not fine at all 6 months on with all sorts of underlying issues and fatigue.

If Trump manages to get away with this with no ill effects, he is beyond lucky.

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TheNorthWestPawsage · 03/10/2020 08:13

I noticed Trump's ref about HH and the military/law enforcement and thought Hmm on several levels!

Roussette · 03/10/2020 08:23

I've just watched 3 different clips of saturday's Rose garden Coney Barrett super spreader event.
,
NO social distancing
NO masks
YES to shaking hands
YES to hugging

KellyAnne Conway tests positive, she is talking into people's ears, close up to others there.
No wonder there are so many cases with the Republican administration
And there'll be more

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TheNorthWestPawsage · 03/10/2020 08:50

We’re in the final stages of the presidential election. What happens if a candidate withdraws or dies?
www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/10/02/were-final-stages-presidential-election-what-happens-if-candidate-withdraws-or-dies/

Complicated! Also people have already voted.
Cut and pasted below if the Washington Post is behind a paywall for some....

In August, Professor Richard Pildes, an expert on elections and U.S. government, and I discussed in a two-part series what could happen if a presidential candidate withdrew or died during the U.S. presidential election process. With the announcement of President Trump’s positive covid-19 test, I asked him to update his analysis for the current moment: (Everything below is written by Professor Pildes.)


We do not know at this moment whether President Trump will have a mild or more serious case of covid-19. But without being alarmist, there is a public need to know what the procedures would be were the president to become incapacitated in two situations: before the election or if he wins and becomes incapacitated before Inauguration Day.


The national organization for the Republican Party is known as the Republican National Committee (RNC). In the first scenario, the RNC would have the power to replace the party’s nominee for president.


The RNC has 168 members — three from each state, plus three from six territories. The RNC’s rules provide that the three members from each state cast the same number of votes that their state or territory is entitled to at the party’s nominating convention.


This means, for example, that Alaska’s three members would get to cast a total of 28 votes. If those three members were to disagree, they would each get to cast one-third of Alaska’s votes. The RNC might quickly agree on a replacement candidate — but if not, the politics within the RNC might become extraordinarily intense.

In some sense, that’s the easy part, given how late in the election process we are now. If there were enough time, the party would seek to put the name of its new candidate on the ballot in each state. There almost certainly would not be time to do this, particularly if the issue only arises two to three weeks from now. The states have various deadlines for when the parties must certify their candidates for the ballot. Those dates have passed. In theory, the RNC could go to court to seek an order permitting it to change the name of its candidate. But there simply would not be enough time to reprint ballots at that point. President Trump will almost certainly remain on the ballot, no matter what happens.




That makes the second scenario the more critical one. Suppose Trump wins the election, even if incapacitated, or becomes incapacitated after the election but before Inauguration Day. This situation is more complex.


The votes for president are cast, of course, in the electoral college. The issue would be how an elector should or can cast their vote if the president wins their state but cannot serve.

In some states, the electors are not legally bound to vote for the candidate who has won their state, though of course, that’s what they do in practice. Indeed, some state laws do expressly provide that electors have discretion in this situation. Republican electors in those states would then most likely vote for the candidate the RNC had put forward to replace the president. The electors in any state (for Democratic nominee Joe Biden or Trump) are likely to be strong party loyalists, if the parties have been careful about who ran as electors on their behalf. If that’s the case, they would likely follow the RNC’s lead.


But a number of states legally bind their electors to vote for the candidate who has won the state’s popular vote. Those laws have a gap: they don’t provide for what electors can or must do if Trump wins their state but can’t serve. When these laws were written, state legislatures were not thinking about this remote possibility.


My view is that even if the electors are formally bound by state law to vote for the dead candidate, they will go ahead and vote for the candidate the RNC has identified to replace the president, if he cannot serve. It is hard to imagine they would be sanctioned for violating these laws; in any event, the sanctions are so mild no elector would be deterred by them in this situation.

Remarkably enough, the Supreme Court recently addressed this very issue — state laws that bind electors to vote for a candidate who has become incapacitated — without resolving it. In the recent Chaifalo decision, in which the court held that states do have the power to bind their electors to support their state’s popular vote winner, Justice Elena Kagan’s majority opinion noted that the court was not addressing the legality of a state binding a candidate to vote for an incapacitated candidate.


The bottom line is that the RNC would determine who the replacement candidate would be, should it come to that unfortunate situation. And Republican slates of electors in states the president won, because he remains on the ballot, would very likely follow the RNC’s recommendation.


But one last possibility to ponder: If the RNC were deeply divided, and Republican electors then did not coalesce around a single replacement candidate, there might not be a majority winner in the electoral college. In that case, the House would choose the president from among the top three vote getters in the electoral college. In that process, each state delegation gets one vote.


These scenarios remain highly remote possibilities at this point, of course. But these and related questions may dominate public discussion for some time.

WhatdoImean · 03/10/2020 09:18

An interesting comment from the Washington Post, to the effect that one of the reasons that Trump was moved to the hospital now was that a) he is in a high risk categories and b) his symptoms are worsening slightly. As such, assuming he might have to go to hospital regardless, it was though much better if he could be seen walking by himself in a suit (as opposed to being carried out..) to the helicopter....

I sadly suspect we are living in "interesting times"

BruceAndNosh · 03/10/2020 09:18

@Roussette

I've just watched 3 different clips of saturday's Rose garden Coney Barrett super spreader event. , NO social distancing NO masks YES to shaking hands YES to hugging

KellyAnne Conway tests positive, she is talking into people's ears, close up to others there.
No wonder there are so many cases with the Republican administration
And there'll be more

There's a video clip of Senator Mike Lee (+ve) hugging people in Rose Garden. At one point he pulls two people into a double hug with him. But he had a mask in his hand at the time so that's OK...
pinkbalconyrailing · 03/10/2020 09:20

Regeneron is the name of the pharmaceutical company, not the name of the medicine.

BruceAndNosh · 03/10/2020 09:24

@WhatdoImean

An interesting comment from the Washington Post, to the effect that one of the reasons that Trump was moved to the hospital now was that a) he is in a high risk categories and b) his symptoms are worsening slightly. As such, assuming he might have to go to hospital regardless, it was though much better if he could be seen walking by himself in a suit (as opposed to being carried out..) to the helicopter....

I sadly suspect we are living in "interesting times"

I admit to thinking the same, let's get him walking to hospital transport now rather than on a gurney next week.

Even though he's a dreadful human being, I do care about the health of The President as a Government official. So I hope he survives this, but no matter what happens it will put a big question mark about his future physical fitness.
My friend's husband - fit 65 year old who plays tennis most weeks - is still needing afternoon naps 4 months after a bout of covid that did not require hospital treatment