To wish she’d stop shouting at me

[PennyCrayon85]

Three year old. Lovely and affectionate when she wants to be but goes off her nut if she’s ever told no, not just now etc.

Comes into my room at 4.45am wanting to get up and go downstairs. Is told no, too early, either to back to bed or come in beside us. Kicks off, screaming and shouting at the top of her voice, tantrums etc. This is most mornings and it is soul destroying.

She’s currently shouting the odds because it’s 8.30am and I have said she can’t do a messy craft set until later 😣

We are not shouty here. I don’t know where this is coming from but it’s driving me nuts. She’s the most strong willed child I have ever met. Single minded, will not be distracted. At the same time I do not want to show her that I will capitulate for a quiet life (as tempting as it is sometimes).

Any suggestions?!

Answer her in a whisper.
Be polite and calm.
Havent you ever watched Supernanny?
‘Not now darling.’

Please don’t madly yell at a 3 year old. You don’t fight fire with fire, you fight it with water.

Different children react differently to different approaches. I have 3 and what worked for one doesn't work for the others.
Anyone who says ""I just basically did X" either has compliant children or happened to pick on the way that works for their children.

A different way that worked with my oldest:
Get a digital clock. Teach her how to recognise the numbers. Put a piece of card over the minutes. Tell her she can disturb you when the number is 6 (or 7 or 8... depending on your thoughts)
My oldest liked rules.

DD2 putting her back to bed consistently worked.

Ds used to run into our room and climb into bed and it was easiest to ignore him.

There are some examples of horrible parenting on this thread. Hold them on the naughty step? Trap them in their bedroom by holding the handle down? Mock them? Really? None of this is better than smacking - what would you say to a woman who said her partner did this to her? And NONE of it, will improve the behaviour of a very strong willed child. You’re reinforcing that all those behaviours are acceptable, which of course they aren’t.

Calm and firm, and never give in. It is VERY hard, but all the “breaking their will” parenting that is required for the naughty step etc, is a very poor idea.

I think small children find "no" very frustrating.

They do. They still need to be told no when the need arises. When children get to school, the ones who are never told no, or are used to constant negotiations are very clear. Negotiations are fine - good even, as they teach children give and take; but sometimes children really do need to be told no.

Give her a proper telling off. Get angry. Can you imagine what your neighbours think? "Kids dont like to be told no" - right, well the adult world is going to be a bit of a shock isnt it?

At 4.45 in the morning the most likely thought from the neighbours will be "won't that woman stop shouting". All this "shout at them" advice ignores other people in the house and immediate neighbours.

I dont think what she is like now has any bearing on what she will be like a teen. Its not as if things get progressively worse and worse unless you reign everything in. Some of these things are part of a developmental stage. She has no idea that you dont feel the same as her or that her needs arent the most important thing yet. How you get it through to her is another story, but its almost certainly a phase and not a sign of a future of her screaming at you.

Sorry I dont have better advice than what you are already doing or what advice has already been given, but 2 of my kids were incredibly difficult at this age, and are teenagers now and lovely. The one who was the easiest toddler is definitely the most difficult teenager

@PennyCrayon85

Yes he does. We take it in turns getting up early with her at the weekend. It’s just my morning for it today and I’m too tired to deal with it this morning 😩

Honestly I need to find a way to deal with her because otherwise her teenage years are going to be a total nightmare. She genuinely thinks she’s in charge here and cannot stand being told no.

Not everyone approves, but have you tried time out/naughty step?

My technique for tantrums when my children were little was simply to leave them on their own, once I'd ascertained that there wasn't any serious reason for them. I found it really quite restful, because I could just get on with my own thing. I realise you can't really do that at 5 a.m. but it works well at other times. When they'd come out of it, I might have a chat with them about how all that screaming didn't make them feel any better and maybe they should think of a better way of expressing themselves.

I suppose my children weren't as obstinate as yours, but I would have thought that if you use this technique often enough and for long enough it will get through to her that shouting simply doesn't work.

My 17yo has been behaving this way for 15 years... it’s a bit wearing tbh

@PennyCrayon85 just a bit of solidarity.

My DD (3.6) is exactly the same. They sound like peas in a pod! Delightful, bright, brilliant company most of the time but absolutely impossible to deal with when it goes wrong.

Even when I’ve completely had it DD continues and will only stay in her room if I hold the door closed which feels absolutely wrong.

At a loss...

Have you got a reward chart running? I’ve found that extremely effective for my youngest.

My 3yrs old is the same. Our approach varies: speaking v quietly back, ignoring, telling off or distraction. To be honest ignoring and telling off are the least useful (especially telling off) but sometimes we are knackered too. Your child doesn't think she rules the roost and will not grow up to be horrible. She is just 3yrs old and it can be a very emotional age. They have control over v little and want control over everything. It will pass.
Fwiw my first child was never like that, always a very rational child, no real tantrum. My second child was a bit harder at that age and could have a tantrum over the most ridiculous thing. She is now a very chilled out 6yrs old (although she can get cross when it rly matters to her). I think it is sometimes worse in younger siblings as they see the older sibling doing things they cannot do yet.

My problem with ignoring them is that it sends the message that you are only there for them when they behave. It's not unconditional love, which is really what they (literally) scream for at that age.
I will admit that I do do that sometimes but I dont view it as a good parenting technique.
Telling off isn't great either as you are potentially doing the same as them but saying it is not acceptable. Again I do do it sometimes but it is not a good parenting technique.

Another thing I try and do is choose my battles wisely and try to be consistent. So if I can agree to his request (even ridiculous ones) then I try to do that straight away. If I say no then I try to follow through...

@PennyCrayon85

Sorry, my previous post wasn’t super helpful about what to actually do (as opposed to what not to do). Try the book The Explosive Child. I’ve found it an endlessly helpful resource in dealing with more challenging children! Good luck!

For the early mornings, I would say don’t resort to the easy hand them a device - it prolongs the problem in my experience. I’d refuse to go downstairs before a certain time (for me it’s six) and no tech or TV before 7am. Get them a drink of water, take them for a wee, then sit with them, either in your bed or theirs and read quietly with them. A slow quiet voice sometimes leads them to falling back to sleep. But even if they don’t go back (and it’s a hellish early start!) it makes them less likely to bother getting up early another day because the result wasn’t very exciting.

I’ve found that offering TV first thing leads to to wake up for it - so we have none before 7am at the weekend and never before school/ work.

It’s really hard to discipline a strong-willed child (by discipline I just mean teaching them the appropriate /right behaviour). They can just keep going and going and going. Where other kids cave they’re only just getting started.
I’d really recommend the book Calmer Happier Easier Parenting. It has quite a few helpful strategies and when you use them all together it really makes a difference. One of the things it talks about is changing habits. Shouting is like a habit with your daughter - she gets to express her emotion, feel powerful and make a lot of noise - all good stuff at that age. The book really helps show you how to help your kids change habits. (I don’t get commission ;) )

I think being upbeat is so important. Really sing song your way out of this one.

I think at 4.45am morning after morning, the OP may struggle to be Mary Poppins. There are times when it's absolutely ok for children, even very young children to be made aware that their behaviour is unacceptable in ways that do not require a parent to be tying themselves up in knots to sing/dance/laugh their way through a shitty time.

Someone up thread said that she needs to be heard. Not all the time she doesn't and not all on her own terms. On most occasions, yes of course she should be given the opportunity to speak and to be heard, but sometimes you need to just shut it down promptly without negotiation.
The bane of DDs lower school life was a child who insisted on shouting out, 'correcting' everyone constantly (including the staff) and generally monopolising every single minute of the day because 'mummy says people should always listen to me'. I know this because the child ended up in my class and although they were quite delightful, it was really hard for them to understand normal conversation between people and rarely understood when things did not go their way.

This is not an easy task for you OP and you've have some great suggestions on here as well as some frankly ridiculous ones. I hope you find some strategies that work for you both.

It's a cliche, OP, but this, too, will pass. I used to be tearing my hair out with some of the things one of my DC went in for when they were little. When that particular awfulness finally went away, I'd be thrilled to bits and patting myself on the back for about an hour, and then something else - even worse - would take its place.

Same DC is now a polite, pleasant, thoughtful, funny young adult who's a pleasure to have around.

You can try most of the suggestions on this thread, if you haven't already tried them (which I'm guessing you probably have). But time will likely be the best cure.

One of mine had a hideous whiney phase, btw. I just kept saying "I can't hear you when you whine. If you talk in a proper voice, I'll be able to hear you." Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't.

The reason I asked about special needs OP is because she sounds so much like my daughter.

Dd was my second child ... from a tiny baby she was awkward, cried constantly. As a toddler and young child I described her as awkward, stubborn, demanding and headstrong. Every single day was a battle with her over something. It was constant. She was nothing like my first or subsequent children. I never backed down, stood my ground, had very firm rules and guidelines in place, didn’t let her get away with anything. It made no difference at all to her and the way she behaved. However, I knew that if didn’t keep on top of her and the rules etc then she would just be absolutely wild. Her teenage years were actually much better than her younger years.

At the age of 15 she was assessed for autism and everything just fell in to place. The more I learned the more I realised her younger years were not about her being awkward stubborn and demanding ... but actually she just struggled with life and all it throws and it was her way of coping/expressing herself.

This obviously may not be your daughters problem but it’s just to let you and others know that this kind of behaviour is not always as it may seem.

No wonder some kids grow up to be so entitled and selfish. No need to psychoanalyse her reasons, if she is not feeling unwell, has had a good dinner, and has not set the bed, there is no reason to be so rude and nasty just because she wants to play.

Kids need to learn to be considerate to others especially at the times when what they are asking makes no sense. Tell her why she needs to respect other people’s need of sleep and send her back to her room, as many times as is needed, eventually she will realise she is not the one to call the shots.

By the way, I have been blessed with a hyperactive child that doesn’t need more than 6 hours of sleep at night. After many frustrating years when I tried everything to get him to sleep at a decent time, I accepted it was a lost battle, so we agreed that he could stay up as long as he stayed in his room, didn’t wake me up with any noises and handover all screens at 8. I am aware that he is staying up until midnight and he is always fully dressed and having breakfast by the time my alarm goes off at 6:45 and has very good grades in school, has never been the grumpy type so I guess he just simply doesn’t need as many hours of sleep as other kids do.

Wet the bed, not set the bed...

We do “good choices” as in:
“We will do messy craft after morning tea but if you keep yelling and we won’t be doing it at all. So after morning tea or not at all? Make a good choice.”

Stop calling it the naughty step. You’re labelling her as naughty.

Call it the thinking step. Set an alarm so she can think about what she’s done wrong. If she gets up you start the timer from scratch and sit he back down.

When she’s stayed there and her times up discuss why she was there and ask her to say sorry. Then move on.

I push them gently out of the room and close the door when they shout at me. Hold the door shut in silence until shouting stops. Just remove her access to you until she can speak kindly. Kids don't scream and carry on for long without an audience.

I agree with this