To wish she’d stop shouting at me

[PennyCrayon85]

Three year old. Lovely and affectionate when she wants to be but goes off her nut if she’s ever told no, not just now etc.

Comes into my room at 4.45am wanting to get up and go downstairs. Is told no, too early, either to back to bed or come in beside us. Kicks off, screaming and shouting at the top of her voice, tantrums etc. This is most mornings and it is soul destroying.

She’s currently shouting the odds because it’s 8.30am and I have said she can’t do a messy craft set until later 😣

We are not shouty here. I don’t know where this is coming from but it’s driving me nuts. She’s the most strong willed child I have ever met. Single minded, will not be distracted. At the same time I do not want to show her that I will capitulate for a quiet life (as tempting as it is sometimes).

Any suggestions?!

Our eldest was a champion tantrumer by 2yo, my dh bought Divas and Dictators by Charlie Taylor.

We implemented a lot of the strategies in the book and she stopped tantruming within weeks, we have 2 more dc who have never had a tantrum, ever (they are 8, 6, 4 now).

Couldn't recommend it enough.

yep, praise the good behaviour, ignore the bad

Have you tried 'when....then' ?

For example 'when you stop shouting, then I can listen to you'
'When then clock reaches this point, then it's time to get up'
'When you are dressed and had breakfast, then we can do the craft activity'

That way she understands that she will get what she wants, but at a suitable time.

I still use it with my older children/teens, and they dont always get thier own way. For example, when you have put your washing on, then we can see what clothes you actually have, then we will discuss if you need any new clothes' (hint, they never do, it's just that their favourite things were in a pile on thier bedroom floor!)

Tell her to stop shouting and talk in her asking voice once.
If she shouts again sit her on the naughty step/quiet order/thinking mat for three minutes. Start time agaric she shouts more.

If she persists tell her that her shouting is unpleasant and means she won’t get that particular activity or thing she wants that day now.

Then divert to something else pleasant.

I have one like this!

I think it depends whether she's genuinely lost control of herself or if she's doing it on purpose.

If you aren't sure, ask youself how she behaves if you change your mind and give in to her...Does she still take some time to calm down and get a grip of herself or does she cheer up instantly?

If it's a genuine loss of control, I would express sympathy with the emotion, hold a firm line on the substantive issue and ignore the behaviour.

So: "No you can't have the thing. I know it's frustrating for you but it's not happening"
Then stand back.

If the tantrum persists I would sometimes say "Do you need a hug to help you calm down?" or I would sit a small distance away from the tantruming child and say "Let me know when your ready for a hug to help you calm down"

If it's deliberate behaviour aimed at wearing you down....I would tell her it's unacceptable and put her in timeout.

OP don't catastrophise - don't assume that if you don't 'get it right' now, things will inevitably spiral and at 13 she'll be out of control. She won't be a 3 year old in a 13 year old body! My eldest was a lot like your daughter at 13 and she is, obviously, nothing like that now - she's a funny, intelligent, lively young person who works hard at school and tells me about her problems. She's a goth who eschews sunshine and fresh air but that's about the only thing I worry about.

3 year olds can be hard work. I'm sure you'll get through it. I don't really do advice (I'm suspicious of parents who think they've got it all worked out) but I guess the main thing is that she learns she doesn't get what she wants by having a tantrum. Eventually, she'll learn, or grow out of it.

Earplugs?

That meant to say - my eldest was a lot like your daughter at 3! and at 13 she is nothing like that...!

It’s so hard having a strong willed one! Hear what she’s saying, acknowledge her frustration And give her what she wants in fantasy but not reality. “Oh you so want to play with the paints right now, you really really want to. You must feel so cross with me right now, I can see you’re cross because you do xxx when you’re angry. That must feel really horrible for you. (Cuddles and sympathy if accepted) What would it be like if we played with the paints, what colour would you use? I’d squish it in my hands and do hand prints, yes I can see why you really want to do that right now. Anyway, about that breakfast....”
give it a go. I find empathy with the feeling is a magic bullet with my strong willed boy x

She goes to nursery four days a week. She loves it and by all accounts is happy and compliant when she’s there (isn’t that always the way!). During lockdown when I was working and also looking after them (one of the worst periods of my whole life to date) her behaviour really nosedived and I understand why - she was bored and screaming for attention - but she’s a lot better now she’s at nursery and there is more structure and routine (and of course she’s occupied and stimulated).

But the shouting is really wearing me down.

dont let her wind you up, stay calm
listen to her, and say I understand you are upset
Be positive.
Say We will do this later, wont it be fun?
give her something quieter to concentrate on in a positive manner, not negative.

@PennyCrayon85

Yes he does. We take it in turns getting up early with her at the weekend. It’s just my morning for it today and I’m too tired to deal with it this morning 😩

Honestly I need to find a way to deal with her because otherwise her teenage years are going to be a total nightmare. She genuinely thinks she’s in charge here and cannot stand being told no.

Poor you.

You have to make a stand now...
She absolutely is ruling the roost at the moment..
Reminds me of a 'Supernanny' episode..

Could you perhaps ask Jo for advice, or look at her videos?

She seems to get results.

Your DD must have learned that shouting gets results.. this behaviour needs to be extinguished.

She is not in charge. You and your DH are. She has to learn to not be a demanding nightmare.

You can do it !

But I need to find a strategy to deal with the shouting and tantrums or she’ll be completely out of control by age 13

A bad phase at one age doesn't mean nightmare at a different stage. My easiest teen was a nightmare as a toddler (and before that a non sleeping baby). Just wanted to be doing things and on the go all the time.

Different tactics work for different children. Sometimes it feels like you are just occupying yourself working through all the strategies until they grow out of it.

Two things seem to apply whichever the strategy though - try to avoid saying "No" and try to avoid rewarding the behaviour. Be boring, be calm (within human capability) and know they do grow out of it.

dont say No,
just say I would love to do this but first we must do that

@PennyCrayon85
A G.P friend used to keep a tiny pair of wellies in his surgery.

When mothers came in with out of control kids, he'd bring out the wellies and say ''these'' ..Take your DC out for lots and lots of exercise.

It really helps.
A lot of kids don't get enough tiring exercise...A potter round the garden isn't enough.

Get those wellies on and tire her out outdoors.

Mine did time out in the porch, it had a 1960s glass panel. One of them started to kick the door in the wooden panel at the bottom and she got evicted to the back garden... for safety reasons.

Some time later (possibly 1-2 years) her younger sister did the same and I told her "kick it again and you'll be outside" the older one piped up "and she will you know" 😂 she clearly remembered it.

It's tough, make sure you follow through with what you say even if you regret the threat you made. It helps them know you men's what you say and gives them boundaries. Try and make consequences relevant to the behaviour. Try and avoid saying "no". I went to do X craft. "Yes you can do that after breakfast/after watching a DVD/when Daddy is up.

A couple of good books "Discipline without shouting or spanking", "How to talk so kids will listen and listen so kids will talk". There is a pre schooler edition I believe plus the siblings without rivalry is brilliant. All quite practical and explain the psychology behind what is going on.

Some DC are just naturally less compliant that others and blimey hard work!!! The most strong willed DC I know have either had PDA (along with autism) or been super intelligent/academic!

Obviously not at 5am but send her out to do 10 laps of the garden and then she can do x y z??? May help her burn off frustration or at lest be distracted from shouting about it not being instant...

My daughter was like that. It was exhausting. However consider it to be an advantage one day (not now). Now an adult, my daughter is loud feisty and successful. She works tirelessly for people less fortunate than herself and her loud shouty manner gets things achieved.
She is kind, generous and affectionate.

Every downside has an upside,

Good luck over the next twenty years, one day you will be a very proud mum, though grey as a badger and worn out.

No it’s not a genuine loss of control. It is deliberate. She calms down as soon as she gets her way. Also, her speech is very good. I don’t think she is struggling to express herself at all. I think she just thinks if she shouts she’ll be heard and will get her own way.

Yeah... maybe (hopefully) one of the strategies suggested here will work. But if they don't, it doesn't mean you're doomed in ten years time. Sounds more to me like you just have a very bright, engaged, strong willed DD who's learning in her own way to deal with the same intense feelings and challenges that every small child has. Unfortunately for you, she just takes a lot longer to get tired of it

The issue behind the issue is the early waking. My youngest did this because he never are much tea so was hungry. We had to reset his food as well as his sleep. Fix the sleep and she won't be so frustrated. Check her room - too hot, too cold, too bright, by the boiler so noisy at certain times. She's sleep deprived and you are heading that way too!

also she loves you and feels safe, at nursery 4 days a week on her best behaviour, she lets down her guard at home, big time

Yeah she’s currently not getting enough sleep. Up until a few weeks ago she would sleep 7-7. Now she’s taking an age to go to sleep and gets up far too early. So the tiredness is definitely an issue.

My dd is now 11. I could have written your op, she is still the same, demanding, wilful, the loudest one in the house. Extremely clever, life and soul of the party, we used to call her our 'Ta-da' girl. She is the youngest of 3, she would be disciplined as her siblings and she would refuse to go fir timeout etc.
It's exhausting, choose your battles, I could literally have a battle with her from when she wakes to when she goes to bed.
It got to the point when she was 7 that we went to the docs, she was angry, lashing out, threatening behaviour. At 10 she was diagnosed with autism. Now I'm not saying your dd has asd, but it may not be 'naughtiness' or shouting it may be something else. Keep notes, watch unusual behaviour and if you feel that she's getting worse go to the docs.

Some kids are far less compliant than others- at 3 they haven’t grasped that other people have needs too.

It really is a phase- sounds like you’re doing fine- just keep at it, it does sink in eventually.

I’m tempted to think this normal threenager, especially for a younger sibling. It’s also definitely horses for courses, kids absolutely have different personalities and need different approaches. I personally wouldn’t want to physically force anything on my children, be it shutting them in rooms or holding them on steps. I guess thinking about your values is always useful. Mine are that we all need our basic needs met and that my need for rest is important, but I understand and can accept their frustration so will try to help them get through it (hugs, put an audiobook on, let them do a puzzle on the floor).