to think wanting to overthrow capitalism is not an extreme political stance

[chomalungma]

New school guidance issued last week for education.

www.gov.uk/guidance/plan-your-relationships-sex-and-health-curriculum#choosing-resources

Issued last Thursday, the guidance reads: “Schools should not under any circumstances use resources produced by organisations that take extreme political stances on matters.
“Examples of extreme political stances include, but are not limited to: a publicly stated desire to abolish or overthrow democracy, capitalism, or to end free and fair elections, opposition to the right of freedom of speech, freedom of association, freedom of assembly or freedom of religion and conscience

There are alternatives to capitalism. People may not like them, I don't necessarily agree with them - but I don't think it's an extreme political stance to take.

Yet the Government think it is.

Are people who think that there alternatives to capitalism taking an extreme political stance?

How is seeking to overthrow the current system of property ownership not extreme ?

It’s not an extreme view to want to throw out totally unregulated capitalism with no checks or balances, in fact it’s maintaining and increasing that state which is the extreme view. The devil is in the detail.

Failure to enact change is extreme. I see.

Given the inequalities in Britain and the failure of the British version of capitalism: yes, it is. Have you not noticed the growth in insecurity over the last ten-twenty years?

Oops, forgot to mention the environmental issues.

What form do you envisage this overthrowing taking?

Overthrowing isn’t the word I’d use. I would want a gradual return to the centre ground, with more checks and balances returning against the unregulated levaraging of wealth. Some of the biggest issues we have at the moment is the disconnection of the housing market from wages; the inaccessibility of legal redress; lack of employment rights; lack of democratic accountability; oh a few others. I’ll just solve them all for you at 10.45 on a Sunday shall I?

I see it says
"The Relationships Education, Relationships and Sex Education and Health Education (England) Regulations 2019, made under sections 34 and 35 of the Children and Social Work Act 2017, make Relationships Education compulsory for all pupils receiving primary education and Relationships and Sex Education (RSE) compulsory for all pupils receiving secondary education. They also make Health Education compulsory in all schools except independent schools. Personal, Social, Health and Economic Education (PSHE) continues to be compulsory in independent schools."

Relationships education compulsory for primary pupils! They should be doing maths and English. Glad I paid school fees to avoid that.

Relationships education compulsory for primary pupils! They should be doing maths and English. Glad I paid school fees to avoid that

Why not start a thread about that and see how it goes down...that would be interesting.

@SallySeven - since the guidance refers to overthrowing capitalism as a separate thing from overthrowing democracy, it appears that Government believes it is extreme even to want to overthrow it through democratic means. So I guess our Government believe it to be extremist even to contemplate any alternative to capitalism.

A bit more from working with external agencies

Schools are responsible for ensuring that speakers, tools and resources do not undermine the fundamental British values of democracy, the rule of law, individual liberty, and mutual respect and tolerance of those with different faiths and beliefs.

Schools should not under any circumstances work with external agencies that take or promote extreme positions or use materials produced by such agencies. Examples of extreme positions include, but are not limited to:
promoting non-democratic political systems rather than those based on democracy, whether for political or religious reasons or otherwise
teaching that requirements of English civil or criminal law may be disregarded whether for political or religious reasons or otherwise
engaging in or encouraging active or persistent harassment or intimidation of individuals in support of their cause
promoting divisive or victim narratives that are harmful to British society
selecting and presenting information to make unsubstantiated accusations against state institutions

If such agencies are mentioned during lessons, for example as a result of questions from children, teachers should ensure they discuss them appropriately and impartially.

In cases where an agency endorses extreme positions as well as moderate positions or positive goals, teachers should carefully explain the distinction between the two and, where appropriate, point out other agencies which are working towards the same goals but which have not adopted extreme political stances.

Winston Churchill commented: ‘Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…’

One might say the same about economics and capitalism!

I don't think democracy lends itself to overthrowing though.

Overthrowing is the word to note here - capitalism is the example.

Overthrowing anything isn’t democratic.

@MysteriesOfTheOrganism - no-one pretends we have a real democracy either, do they? We are neither entirely undemocratic nor entirely democratic. We just have a form of semi-democratic, semi-capitalist society.

Interesting Sun Headline from a few years ago

www.thesun.co.uk/news/7338593/conservatives-stop-labour-overthrow-capitalism/

TIM MONTGOMERIE Labour want to overthrow capitalism, here’s what May and the rest of the Conservative Party can do to stop them
Ten years after the financial crash, the Tories are still offering penny-sized solutions to pound-sized problems, says Tim Montgomerie, founder of conservativehome.com

I guess it is undemocratic to overthrow an undemocratic regime, too. Someone should mention that to the Americans.

The problem I have not ever seen answered is who does the crap jobs if everyone paid the same? And who wants to spend years training or very stressful job for no extra money?

Capitalism isn’t something that can be overthrown.

It might collapse though. As the cycle of boom and bust, of growth then recession finally results in a depression to end all depressions. One too big to bail out the banks.

Question is what then fills the void? Will human civilisation, or what’s left of it, be sufficiently evolved to set up something better? Something built on co-operation, collaboration and equality? A system that truly values every human being on the planet as well as the planet itself?

I sometimes think that maybe a problem is that there are just too many humans now for all to have everything they want.

And who wants to spend years training or very stressful job for no extra money?

Depends what you mean by stressful. I’d rather be sat indoors being a GP. Diagnosing patients may be stressful but being a refuse collector, in the cold and dark at 6.30 am every morning carrying rubbish from the backstreets is my idea of absolute utter hell.

Ok, but many people would prefer work in the shop if salary same as GP. And who wants to spend 9 months a year on an oil rig if pay is not £££.

My partners friend drives bin truck. He makes over £40k so not a bad salary.

What we should overthrow is our adversarial politics - we are in a global pandemic and all that happens is the parties not in power criticise and deride the one in power rather than working together - it's pathetic really and all parties do it.
What annoys me is that eg Labour, SNP are able to rant in and on the media about how awful it is that the Gov are doing X, Y and Z and NEVER made to say exactly what they would do - so do they actually want us to close universities, schools etc and could they please give details of what levels of infection are required to implement their 'let's be kind to the electorate' plans. But not it's divisive criticism which once headlined in the media causes more division in the public.
They're all selfish and self-seeking.

But no , not not.