AIBU to want this parent jailed?

[MyWitzEnd]

They got a covid test result of positive on Saturday. In Monday they sent their year 7 child to school. Tuesday the child was tested, Weds positive result, Thurs the whole year group goes home for two weeks. As a teacher, and vulnerable, mixing with 700 kids a day, I want him jailed (in two weeks!!)

I like the Isle of Man approach.

Jailed 😂😂😂

Since March and returning residence have been put into isolation for 2 weeks at residences costs. They have a hotel set up for them. They had to apply to come back and wait for a space on the boat.

The hotel rule has relaxed if they can self isolated (on their own) at home.

The rules still apply. You can leave but apply to come back.

Woman this week came back and stopped for petrol. She was arrested and jailed. Her choice. She know the rules.

The island hasn’t had a single community transmission since June.

Schools are open, no masks or social distancing, hand washing is required. Shops and pubs restaurant are fully open. No need for masks. The island doesn’t have Covid.

So a handful of people went to jail? The rest of the population got their freedom.

'There is the pesky problem that it would harm the child more than the parent but I do think families that can’t follow Covid-safe policy should lose their entitlement to a place at school.'

WTF

So because a parent does something wrong, the child/ten area denied an education?

Global human rights act excerpt...

'Economic, social and cultural rights
The International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights entered into force in 1976. The human rights that the Covenant seeks to promote and protect include:

the right to work in just and favourable conditions;
the right to social protection, to an adequate standard of living and to the highest attainable standards of physical and mental well-being;
the right to education and the enjoyment of benefits of cultural freedom and scientific progress.'

So parents of a 6 to send the child to school when they are symptomatic.

Later test positive.

The parents are jailed, the child is put into care.

Further, the child is permanently excluded from access to state education.

Is that correct?

Why is everyone banging on about the Isle of Man? Has op said where she is? I'm in London. Fwiw. If this an Isle of Man specific conversation, apologies, I hadn't realised.

'I dont wish harm to anyone but those of you who put your need to work over safety.of people might do well to remember that if loved ones do get ill'

Welcome back op.

How do you think your thread has gone?

I think a high fine - more than 1k, although I guess if they’ve got no income that might be tricky - but not jail. We don’t have the space in prisons for one thing, if we chucked in all the quarantine breakers / people who wouldn’t isolate.

It is a terrible thing to do though- they must have realised the child could pass it on, and also what the rules were.

And honestly, a secondary age child isn’t going to prevent a sick parent from resting and recovering, if this was their reason for being so selfish as I’m assuming they weren’t going out to work themselves with it. They shouldn’t be sending any child in but it seems extra unnecessary when it’s a kid old enough to be told to make themselves a sandwich and watch tv if you need to sleep off an awful virus.

Fined, yes. Jailed, no.

I get you OP, I’m a teacher still going and prioritising this, really, over my own family. We live with my elderly vulnerable parents due to DV. My mum has a severe lung infection.
I don’t think parents appreciate the risk teachers are taking. I have to be honest though, I’m not doing it for the benefit of the parents!

Thing with fines is they hit the poor harder than the rich.

Poor single mum in precarious employment... Have to stay home, lose job, recession, lose home etc etc

Rich person... Do whatever and pay up no probs.

OP many posters have said yes yes yes to prison.

Having read your thread, what do you feel about the responses?

They should not have sent child to school. But equally there was no need for the school to send 700 children home because of one positive test. They didn’t need to send anyone home in fact unless advised to do so by Test & Trace. Over reactions left right and centre by schools.

Exactly this happened in my home town. Family came back from hols, mum was ill but sent the 2 kids into school, (y3 and y8) and then tested positive and continued to send them in because she was too ill to look after them and their Dad was at work and then younger child gets ill and tests positive. So, all y3 got sent home from primary and all y8 from huge secondary. This included my nephew, who has had an organ transplant, so my sister has climbed the walls trying to get him tested. He was negative.

They won’t need to fine the parents though, everyone knows who they are and they’re closed to being lynched.

Why is everyone banging on about the Isle of Man

It shows putting people in jail works and has helped prevent the spread of the virus.

DD school has year group bubbles.

They have said to 3 groups not to come in since start of term. That's about 180 kids per year group.

How the hell are teachers are supposed to deliver the curriculum under these circumstances?

I think it varies between schools but at ours. No science lab work. No CDT etc. No music. No PE to speak of.

They are not allowed to turn their heads in class. Lunch is sort of zigzag. No opposite child.

For new year sevens how are they supposed to make friends? It's all so odd.

Just for context. I know it's really hard for teachers and wrote a note the other day saying as much to the school.

Anyway.

We have on this thread saying any child in the school system whose parents break the rules should be permanently excluded from state education?

Like I said earlier on this thread. A lot of posts are quite bonkers. I hope people are trolling but suspect they aren't. The keeness that so many posters on from the start have had to - make up rules and hate people who don't stick to them, spy on neighbours friends and family, be red hot keen on stricter rules and heavy handed police enforcement.

Now calling for those who do not follow the rules to be variously

Jailed (possibly without trial, no comment on how long etc)
Result of children being taken into care- I've not seen any concern about that from the pro prison people
They also show no concern about the people who work in that sector
Idea about children with parents who break rules to be banned from accessing state education
...

This pandemic has been eye opening from the start on how many people really like arbitrary changing rules, tell on your neighbours, hate in xyz people

Now it's moved onto, deny wrongdoers children an education.

Someone upthread even talked about 'rounding people up'...

Think what you are asking for. Seriously.

'closed to being lynched'.

The language here. Jesus.

Over reactions left right and centre by schools.

Heads know that, if they don’t, they will be held personally responsible should someone fall sick/lose money through being unable to work/have a death in the family, because they didn’t isolate the bubble from school.
So no, it isn’t an over reaction it’s a living nightmare that they can’t win.

They also, weirdly, do generally have some feelings of responsibility towards protecting their staff, mind boggling I know!

Bluebells there is a bit of a difference between the Isle of Man and the UK.

It's like saying how come new zealand has it bang on, why doesn't Mexico just do that?

I genuinely don't know if people on this thread are trying to provoke an argument by stating extreme views, or are serious.

And the fact I can't tell us worrying in itself!

NiceGerbil, the principal is the same, here are the examples:
Someone is found guilty of murder, but they have children and no partner, or close friends to take care of their children. So even though this person planned the murder first, knew what they were doing, could easily have not committed the murder, and the murderer knew very well that if caught they would go to prison for a long time, and their children would have to go into care in those circumstances, the murderer has to be just given a fine s/he couldn't afford to pay, because otherwise his/her children would suffer from going into care, and therefore not being brought up by a selfish murderer:
Another person still kills someone, maybe many someones, even though they knew that the actions they took could directly lead to the deaths of others ie planned their deaths. This murderer knew very well that their actions could lead to the death of others, so they knew what they were doing. This murderer knew that they would only get a fine (if caught), so they didn't care, they could still go home to their children, and bring them up to be as selfish and uncaring as they themselves were. Oh and it would have been very easy for this murderer to comply by the rules, like millions of others were, and therefore not kill anyone, or at least drastically reduce the chances of doing so.
Also they didn't care about the ambulance paramedics, all the hospital staff, and any other innocent patients who were at the hospital when someone who they had infected (through their selfish actions) with Covid 19, was brought into the hospital. Medical staff, like Prison staff are both more than innocent, and do not deserve to catch Covid 19 through the selfish actions/inactions of others.
By making the severest punishment of breaking the Covid 19 rules, a prison sentence, it may be sufficient to stop people acting in such an irresponsible matter. Of course there will always be some who are imbecilic enough to break the rules, but that would be their choice, we cannot let people murder others without a serious enough deterrent and punishment.
If any particular Covid 19 potential murderer did not have their murder of someone proved, but that their actions may still have led to unproven deaths, then I would not expect the first time offender to get a very long sentence - just a short, sharp shock.
I wonder NiceGerbil (and others who think as you do), if you have read all that I have said here, or whether you decided as soon as you realised that I thought differently to you, that I must be one of the mad, or even mad and bad brigade, so there was no need to consider my views?
I like your obvious compassion for others, I do not like that you do not extend it far enough, or maybe in the wrong direction.

I see what you mean sort of.

There can’t be an automatic pass for “parents” otherwise you’d have people running amok with meat cleavers knowing they’d face no consequences.

Perhaps a good example is Typhoid Mary, a cook who infected and killed a number of families in New York with the typhoid she carried. She carried on working since she needed the income, but when she was identified as the culprit was jailed.

There will be a fair few doing this in honesty. Before all this was a thing, I used to rage a lot about parents who would send their kids in with sickness bugs, which then inevitably went round the whole class. They would actively admit that their kid had puked that morning too in many cases, but would say (and I have a bit of sympathy for this) that they couldn't get time off work. The solution to that though isn't sending them in, to be called in an hour later to collect anyway, meanwhile making 30 other kids ill and thus the issue of childcare is still a problem for you, but for 30 other families also, along with a child who didn't need to be ill, being ill.

@FrangipaniBlue

I am pretty sure the person who sent their child to school in this scenario didn't do so with the intention of wanting to accidentally kill people.

But they did it knowing it COULD kill people....... they were obviously prepared to take that gamble with other people's lives.

Sending any ill kid in to potentially spread has the potential to kill people really. Even the likes of norovirus..loads write it off as just unpleasant but it can be very dangerous for certain people.

I don't know the aswers. But no, I don't think such parents should be jailed

I think there should be more provision in jobs for sick days for kids though, this would help a lot. But of course, this would set off the 'I dont have kids and want the extra days off, why should they get help?!?!?!' type people so..again..dunno.

I think especially during this pandemic, there should be provision made for those who are meant to isolate. Its simply not fair, or possible for MANY to just say..ahh 14 days off, no pay, no school, no nothing. Possibly followed by another, and another...for most, this is just not doable at all. So some thought needs to go into making it do-able, else it will keep happening..