to object to teaching students without a reason for not wearing a mask

[evenmoreforthemoor]

I teach teenagers.

I have to wear a mask to protect them from me.

They don't have to wear a mask if they have a 'reason'. We are not allowed to ask them what their reason is.

I am fine with teaching learners who have a genuine reason for not wearing one. But I want to know if it is genuine or not. And yes, I think I should be able to ask why and refuse to have them in my classroom if they choose not to wear one for a reason that I believe is spurious.

What would be my legal status if I refused to teach them?

Am wondering if there are any test cases with regards to this.

titchy

Umm I think the term insane refers to the mothers refusal to accept scientific evidence as the basis for mask wearing. If the word makes you immediately think of people with mental health problems then it tells us more about your prejudice than the OP's.

@FOJN

titchy

Umm I think the term insane refers to the mothers refusal to accept scientific evidence as the basis for mask wearing. If the word makes you immediately think of people with mental health problems then it tells us more about your prejudice than the OP's.

If you'd bothered to read the full thread you'd see the OP made no mention of the mother's beliefs until later on. She simply referred to a student's mother in her second post as 'clearly not sane' and used that as a reason that she needed to know his reasons and if she could refuse to teach if she didn't consider them good enough. Apparently Covid doesn't infect teachers where students are justified in not wearing a mask and the teacher has accepted that justification.

Erm I'm not you've just made that up 😂😂😂

titchy

I have read the whole thread and I did not jump to the conclusion that the mother had mental health problems because the OP used the term "clearly not sane". My understanding was that the mother was not amenable to reason. I use the term insane and batshit crazy frequently, sometimes about myself, I do not use it as short hand to describe mental illness and would therefore not assume that's what someone else meant by using it. As I said if the terminology immediately makes you think of people with mental health problems then it is you who is exhibiting prejudice and not the OP.

@titchy

Honestly, just let it go. The point you're arguing isn't even worth it.

If the use of the word insane upsets you then I apologise.

But it doesn't only mean what you think it does. It also means 'utterly senseless'.

IMO a person who believes that Covid is a lie and that 5G masts give migraines is utterly senseless and therefore insane. Again I apologise if I didn't give full info at the start.

@WaterOffADucksCrack

Erm I'm not you've just made that up 😂😂😂

Well you seem to have mentioned me thinking Im special for wanting to know why masks aren't worn and also because I'm a teacher and a mum more than once. It doesn't offend me - just makes me wonder why you're so determined to make me feel bad about it.

Nothing wrong with liking yourself and thinking you're special. It's a good feeling to look out for yourself. It's part of what makes me a good teacher - we work a lot on self esteem and also because I look after myself and ensure healthy lifestyle and relationships I am in a good, positive state of mind when I work with them. We have a lot of fun and we all learn a lot - me as much from them!

I want to be able to keep healthy so that I can keep teaching them. I had to have two days off this week due to a cough and they had a supply teacher for one day and sent home for the other. That's a shit situation for learners who have already had a bad time in education. We can probably agree on that!

@VacantHead

Time to get back to normal

What is 'normal' If your child's teacher has an underlying heart condition which means months of rehab or DEATH ?

I don't get why everyone is so obsessed with masks on here. Everyone seems to work from the premise that one is "safe" if one wears one, yet the evidence is very thin on the ground that they work. In many countries cases are going up despite widespread mask mandates!

I just find it odd that so many functional, healthy adults are terrified of the virus and project that fear into children. Mental health is at an all-time low, teachers should set a good example and stop being lame. If you don't like it then maybe rethink your profession? Part and parcel of being a teacher is showing leadership and not giving into fear-especially when the likelihood of dying is extremely low for most people.

I honestly don't get this attitude that the kids are the snowflakes - I'd say it is the other way round. I am not worried at all about the virus but the neurosis of others and their obsession to pull everyone down with them and the implications that has on wider society concerns me more.

Charities like Mind and Samaritans have been for years urging people not to use insane in the way you are - as a pejorative term

@Diegogirl85

I don't get why everyone is so obsessed with masks on here. Everyone seems to work from the premise that one is "safe" if one wears one, yet the evidence is very thin on the ground that they work. In many countries cases are going up despite widespread mask mandates!

I just find it odd that so many functional, healthy adults are terrified of the virus and project that fear into children. Mental health is at an all-time low, teachers should set a good example and stop being lame. If you don't like it then maybe rethink your profession? Part and parcel of being a teacher is showing leadership and not giving into fear-especially when the likelihood of dying is extremely low for most people.

I honestly don't get this attitude that the kids are the snowflakes - I'd say it is the other way round. I am not worried at all about the virus but the neurosis of others and their obsession to pull everyone down with them and the implications that has on wider society concerns me more.

Are you mates with this child's mum?

@YouBringLightInToADarkPlace

Genuinely don't get this... surely if masks work then you are protected by wearing one, and if they don't work then your student not wearing one won't make a difference?

Image from sciencemag.org

My school requires the wearing of masks in class. I'm asthmatic and it is fine. Not a problem.
The bigger issue for my asthma is the increased cleaning and fumes that result from this. I've increased my inhaler use as a result but that's preferable to COVID.

It's astonishing that so many people in the UK are claiming exemption - the while "you have no right to know my reasons," has left the way clear for people who simply don't want to wear a mask to tell themselves that if they put one in once and don't like it, that meand they are exempt and anyone doubting that is evil incarnate.

Imagine if students could self declare without ever being asked why or providing so much as a doctor's Note, that they needed extra time in exams, to use a lift provided only for pupils and staff with mobility issues due to there only being one small lift between 800 people, a scribe in exams, to sit in a specific spot in the room, to be allowed to leave the room without warning/ asking at all times, to eat in class, and all other reasonable adjustments. These things only work because they're available only to those who actually need them.

I work with people with disabilities and we've worked hard with every individuel to help them find a mask they can tolerate and to understand in their own terms why they're important. The same with hand washing and social distancing. It requires effort and patience but it's achievable for most people. A lot of our clients with disabilities have medical comorbidities which make them high risk and medically vulnerable. Many can understand that they wear masks to protect one another. There are a tiny percentage who genuinely can't tolerate masks, and it's for them exemptions exist, not for people who essentially just don't want to, like one MN poster on another thread, who let slip that she had decided she was exempt due solely to wearing glasses!

I wish people would stop calling questioning mask wearing ableism without acknowledging that many people with disabilities have comorbidities which make them medically vulnerable and at high risk from covid. People who could wear a mask but don't are ableist because increasing numbers of maskless people are a barrier to entering public indoor spaces for medically fragile disabled people. People who don't wear masks when they could create a hostile environment for the few who genuinely can't wear masks, psychologically, socially and in practical risk management terms.

It’s amazing how many people have such a myriad of conditions in this country that prevents them from wearing masks.

I guess people don’t experience any trauma or medical reasons in other countries with high compliance?

No one should have to be around anyone that is choosing to put them at risk.

You seem to be asking your pupils the equivalent of forcing a disabled person to divulge all the details of their disability to you and, for this, YABVU. If they have been given an exemption, you can't ask for all the reasons.

@ArranBound

You seem to be asking your pupils the equivalent of forcing a disabled person to divulge all the details of their disability to you and, for this, YABVU. If they have been given an exemption, you can't ask for all the reasons.

I have all the details of my learners disabilities. I write their educational health care plans.

That's why I know there is no issue for this learner in wearing a mask other than his mother's insanity (used in the sense of 'utter disbelief' at her views rather than in terms of her mental health).

As I said previously (if you RTFT) I don't now believe I personally need to know but I think someone, somewhere should know and should be policing it.

I have all the details of my learners disabilities. I write their educational health care plans.

You have whatever is in the reports from whoever assessed them. So you would be asking for a medical professional or clinical psychologist to formally evaluate their ability to wear a mask? Good luck with that, by the time you get the evaluation Covid will be long gone.

I don't now believe I personally need to know but I think someone, somewhere should know and should be policing it.

"Policing" it, eh? How? As a pp said, a health professional would probably just tell you to add 'can't be expected to wear a mask' to the ECHPs.

(and when I say "Covid will be long gone" that's not because I imagine it's going to disappear any time soon)

@UntilYourNextHairBrainedScheme

It's astonishing that so many people in the UK are claiming exemption - the while "you have no right to know my reasons," has left the way clear for people who simply don't want to wear a mask to tell themselves that if they put one in once and don't like it, that meand they are exempt and anyone doubting that is evil incarnate.

Imagine if students could self declare without ever being asked why or providing so much as a doctor's Note, that they needed extra time in exams, to use a lift provided only for pupils and staff with mobility issues due to there only being one small lift between 800 people, a scribe in exams, to sit in a specific spot in the room, to be allowed to leave the room without warning/ asking at all times, to eat in class, and all other reasonable adjustments. These things only work because they're available only to those who actually need them.

I work with people with disabilities and we've worked hard with every individuel to help them find a mask they can tolerate and to understand in their own terms why they're important. The same with hand washing and social distancing. It requires effort and patience but it's achievable for most people. A lot of our clients with disabilities have medical comorbidities which make them high risk and medically vulnerable. Many can understand that they wear masks to protect one another. There are a tiny percentage who genuinely can't tolerate masks, and it's for them exemptions exist, not for people who essentially just don't want to, like one MN poster on another thread, who let slip that she had decided she was exempt due solely to wearing glasses!

Great post @UntilYourNextHairBrainedScheme. What a great response to work so hard with your clients to help them accomodate a mask. That sounds like a very empowering response. I'm suprised reading this thread at the level of apprehension and defensiveness about mask wearing. I'm in Victoria and masks have been compulsory (baring medical exemptions) for a long time now. The compliance has been outstanding and it's very, very rare to see someone without a mask. It does take some getting used to but after a while you do forget about it and most people seem very comfortable in masks now. We don't require any medical certificate for an exemption and trust that people do the right thing but as almost everyone is wearing masks this doesn't seem to be taken advatnage of. I'm sad reading some of this comments at people just choosing not to because they don't want to or very minor problems like glasses. It's unfair to place others at risk because you don't want to. Even if individuals aren't concerned about catching the virus, they may end up in hospital and the doctor and nurse caring for them places their life at risk. They may also pass it to a vulnerable person who is heavily at risk. That's not fair because of personal preference / a general belief that the virus isn't out there / isn't a personal threat to you / is a government conspiracy

It sounds like you've made it clear OP that you don't think you should be the person to check the validity of excuses. I think most of us would agree that kids shouldn't justify themselves to 6 teachers a day so I'm glad for that. It makes sense though for the government / schools to take a much firmer approach and state masks must be worn unless you have a valid excuse. If the compliance is low then it sounds like someone should verify that excuse. Whether that's a central wellbeing officer at the school or a GP / psychologist / social services worker / chaplin. The cases are rising so fast in the UK and the governments response sound underreactive. If nothing changes, it doesn't seem like schools will stay open for long. Best of luck in staying safe OP and keeping all of the students under your care safe.

Well you seem to have mentioned me thinking Im special for wanting to know why masks aren't worn and also because I'm a teacher and a mum more than once. It doesn't offend me - just makes me wonder why you're so determined to make me feel bad about it. I'm not determinedto make you feel bad about it. What a weird thing to say.

I understand how hard it is at the moment. I run a care home and have 3 children under 5. I still don't think I deserve special treatment.

@WaterOffADucksCrack

Well you seem to have mentioned me thinking Im special for wanting to know why masks aren't worn and also because I'm a teacher and a mum more than once. It doesn't offend me - just makes me wonder why you're so determined to make me feel bad about it. I'm not determinedto make you feel bad about it. What a weird thing to say.

I understand how hard it is at the moment. I run a care home and have 3 children under 5. I still don't think I deserve special treatment.

I'm sad for you that you don't think you are special or important.

@nosswith

The French approach and indeed that in Germany should be adopted here. Face coverings and masks being compulsory in certain places, end of.

No chance of that happening though.

I'm in Spain and here children from 6 upwards has to wear a mask at all times at school and indoors and out anywhere public. There are exemptions but pretty much everyone complies and a lot of under sixes wear them too.

Our government have done a good job making people believe everyone is infectious with killer virus Covid.
Please, stop living in fear.
The chance of coming across to any Covid is tiny. Becoming infected is even smaller.