to object to teaching students without a reason for not wearing a mask

[evenmoreforthemoor]

I teach teenagers.

I have to wear a mask to protect them from me.

They don't have to wear a mask if they have a 'reason'. We are not allowed to ask them what their reason is.

I am fine with teaching learners who have a genuine reason for not wearing one. But I want to know if it is genuine or not. And yes, I think I should be able to ask why and refuse to have them in my classroom if they choose not to wear one for a reason that I believe is spurious.

What would be my legal status if I refused to teach them?

Am wondering if there are any test cases with regards to this.

I can see your point but a few weeks ago I read a story on here about a lady who had suffered incredibly traumatic sexual abuse, which involved semi-suffocation each time. As a result she had tried to wear a mask and a visor but both caused her to have panic attacks. She was forced to explain to 5 separate people on one occasion, in public, why she wasn’t wearing one. Since then I am very aware that people do have very genuine reasons for not wearing one and I have sympathy with them. OP are you really worried about the risks or is it just pissing you off? If the former could you maybe take further precautions yourself or even take a sabbatical as this isn’t going to change. If the latter I think you have to take a deep breath and realise that you can only control your own behaviour and the law is that masks don’t have to be worn in all circumstances.

^ This...

Fuck that .. (the students have a 'right' not to disclose a reason) !!

But the teacher has no right to protect herself from serious ill health or death !!

Whose 'health' mental or physical, should trump whose ?

To me this is is simple answer. Who is the one most likely to suffer the consequences of Covid ? The 0-30 year old or the 40+ year older ?

ALL students should be mask wearing . Or stay at home if not prepared to provide a medical exemption from their doctor or mental health team. Self diagnosing kids by their parents as 'unable' does not cut it.

One of my daughters teachers was in hospital for 7 weeks. Still not fit for work . Whilst the kids walk away with a bit of a cough for a few days.

This takes 'entitlement' to a whole new level. Entitled to make people very ill because you don't fancy a mask !

This (to Venicelover.

@Madamfrog

I am in France. All teachers at all levels of school school and university, and all secondary school children and students must wear masks at all times on the premises. The same goes for all the admin people. All day, in class and out. If a person can't cope with wearing a mask then they get a dr's note and stay at home.

There's your solution! Move to France.

I think it is perfectly reasonable for students to ask for an exemption from mask wearing through the central student support services of a college/university. These services are there to provide support to students who need it and have robust processes for dealing with that information. I think the teacher in a class has the right to know which students have been given exemptions (though not necessarily the reason) .

If the student is not on the exemption list, then I think the teacher should be allowed to insist they wear a mask. I know lots don't agree though

OP, I'd buy fp3 type masks which protect you but not the students. It is is a shame for all of the others in the class but needs must

in my classroom, I think I do have a right to ensure that all those who can wear masks do wear them
I honestly believe that people with a reason for not wearing a mask should have to say why they are not wearing it when in a classroom You sound full of your own self importance. A couple of members of the support group I'm a memeber of for survivors of rape and sexual assault were orally raped and so can't wear masks because of the trauma. I absolutely do not agree that they should be forced to tell you if they were a student of yours.

And I do do my job, under very difficult circumstances. Like most people then

I think it would be ok for the head teacher to ask for a letter explaining why they can't wear them but only they should be privy to that information, no one else.

@OnlyFoolsnMothers

Firstly I think you lost me by constantly berating this fictional awful MOTHER as opposed to parent or god forbid dad. Secondly you don’t have the right to anyone’s medical information. It’s not a perfect system hence we have to stem the infection rate outside of the classroom, I don’t think it’s fair to ask an 11yr old to be in a mask for 7 -8hrs when you factor in their travel too. God knows I struggle wearing one round the shops.

I'm sorry you're lost, most other people seem to be coping ok.

The mother I was referring to is a child's parents in my class.

They're not 11. They're 16-18 as I have previously stated (FE). And they are in for 2.5 days per week.

If doctors can cope in 12 hr shifts in full PPE then I think our little darlings (mine included) can be expected to wear a mask to prevent making others sick.

Your head/principal/governors have presumably made a decision about what constitutes a Covid secure environment. You need to talk to them and ask for their risk assessment, not a load of randomers on MN. If you disagree with your senior leaders I'd suggest you contact your union.

What you want/think, what common sense says, etc are irrelevant to the legal position, which I suspect are teach or risk disciplinary. Same as for anyone who has to work in an environment they don't regard as Covid secure.

Picking on the kid who parent has MH issues is frankly though diabolical and downright nasty of you. The issue isn't with his mother, it's with your managers.

@WaterOffADucksCrack

in my classroom, I think I do have a right to ensure that all those who can wear masks do wear them I honestly believe that people with a reason for not wearing a mask should have to say why they are not wearing it when in a classroom You sound full of your own self importance. A couple of members of the support group I'm a memeber of for survivors of rape and sexual assault were orally raped and so can't wear masks because of the trauma. I absolutely do not agree that they should be forced to tell you if they were a student of yours.

And I do do my job, under very difficult circumstances. Like most people then

I'm sorry if you feel that trying to protect my own health and that of my students means that I am full of self importance. As a mum and a teacher I think I am pretty important!

As I have said several times already, all it would require is a form to be filled out and handed to the safeguarding member of staff. On that form would be several options, one being 'rather not say'. But just having this form would perhaps prevent people like my student from mask refusing because apparently 'Covid isn't real'.

@Heronwatcher

I can see your point but a few weeks ago I read a story on here about a lady who had suffered incredibly traumatic sexual abuse, which involved semi-suffocation each time. As a result she had tried to wear a mask and a visor but both caused her to have panic attacks. She was forced to explain to 5 separate people on one occasion, in public, why she wasn’t wearing one. Since then I am very aware that people do have very genuine reasons for not wearing one and I have sympathy with them. OP are you really worried about the risks or is it just pissing you off? If the former could you maybe take further precautions yourself or even take a sabbatical as this isn’t going to change. If the latter I think you have to take a deep breath and realise that you can only control your own behaviour and the law is that masks don’t have to be worn in all circumstances.

I really feel for her but sadly, individual trauma should not trump the collective for wearing a mask.

*need

I suppose if a teacher can make people tell then why they aren’t wearing a mask, where does it end? Can a supermarket worker ask customers to explain why they don’t have a mask? Or a bus driver? If they say they’re exempt and school policy allows this I don’t think there’s much that you can do.

@titchy

Picking on the kid who parent has MH issues is frankly though diabolical and downright nasty of you. The issue isn't with his mother, it's with your managers.

Why are you making stuff up?

Where have I picked on him? I'm nothing but lovely to him. I have an issue with him not wearing a mask, not an issue with him as a person.

Where does it say she has mental health problems?

@venicelover

Absolutely. Not sure much trumps protecting someone from a potentially life threatening/altering virus.

You’re point about teaching from the front being akin to managing prison from reception is spot on OP. Excellent analogy. I think what your proposing is entirely fair. A completely private document whereby the student discloses their reason for exemption to the safeguarding team. That’s no different to the disclosure a student can make for any reasonable adjustment. We do have students who have suffered trauma, we support them. I’m a teacher who was violently sexually assaulted and raped. I still wear a mask to teach, but when they surveyed staff to see if there were any potential exclusions, I said I could potentially find it difficult due to a personal matter. I didn’t feel upset or like my privacy was violated. I thought ‘work are doing their best to protect individuals who do have a legitimate reason not to wear a face covering.’ I don’t agree with asking on the spot in class, but an informed reason isn’t unreasonable at all.

@titchy
You need to talk to them and ask for their risk assessment, not a load of randomers on MN.

Just pondering what AIBU would look like if no one asked a load of randomers a question

The French approach and indeed that in Germany should be adopted here. Face coverings and masks being compulsory in certain places, end of.

No chance of that happening though.

I sympathise OP. It seems crazy - all those teenagers directing their germs towards you because of classroom arrangements, most likely in a crowded poorly ventilated room.
Obviously there are some people who genuinely cannot wear masks for medical reasons. Masks do take a bit of getting used to for sure but many people could start by wearing them at home for a few minutes and build up the time. Some people are just anti mask and others aren't willing to try.
Unfortunately there are quite a few people who just declare they can't wear masks who aren't genuine medical exceptions. Those people make it worse for genuine people which is a real shame.
OP I completely understand you need a way to weed out the genuine from the false, for the sake of everyone but especially yourself.

It should be across the board, not just in school. Mask exemption should not exist except in the most extreme cases. If you want to go out and take part in society you need to conform to the expectations of the majority.

I have been at the hairdresser this morning and she was exasperated because she had a male customer who refused to have his temp taken and refused to wear a mask because he didn't believe COVID existed. She told him he couldn't enter unless he had his temp taken and wore a mask and I fully support her in doing that.

I am in France. All teachers at all levels of school school and university, and all secondary school children and students must wear masks at all times on the premises. The same goes for all the admin people. All day, in class and out. If a person can't cope with wearing a mask then they get a dr's note and stay at home.

Sounds very sensible. Teachers are not cannon fodder - they need protecting. Fortunately most children and teenagers are only mildly affected by COVID, teachers and TAs are more at risk, we should look after them.

If doctors can cope in 12 hr shifts in full PPE then I think our little darlings (mine included) can be expected to wear a mask to prevent making others sick wow maybe you should have a change of career OP, the way you reference children with such contempt is concerning!

I think YABU, simply because you'll cause more problems than solving any by forcing anyone to wear a mask. Can you not rearrange the seating plan and keep windows open? I would just do that and if the students don't like it (not so much the windows) then it's too bad. There are things you can control but I don't think the masks are one.

The classrooms in my (primary) Victorian school are very cramped. We have 32 kids in my class. Our windows haven't opened in years and there is no money for building repairs. There are not sinks in every classroom. There aren't even enough toilets - there is often a queue of desperate children hopping around. We have tried very hard with the COVID restrictions but for the government to say schools are COVID secure is a complete lie.
At least I only have 32 in my bubble. The poor secondary teachers have many hundreds.

This child has been indoctrinated by his mother that masks are harmful. Her information is flawed, but that doesn't stop the feelings that the child has a result of it. Surely you can see that wearing a mask will cause him extreme distress?

Some really nasty ablism on this thread, from you OP as well as others. You know suicide and mental health crisis rates have gone through the roof? You're a part of that, I hope you're ashamed of yourself.