to object to teaching students without a reason for not wearing a mask

[evenmoreforthemoor]

I teach teenagers.

I have to wear a mask to protect them from me.

They don't have to wear a mask if they have a 'reason'. We are not allowed to ask them what their reason is.

I am fine with teaching learners who have a genuine reason for not wearing one. But I want to know if it is genuine or not. And yes, I think I should be able to ask why and refuse to have them in my classroom if they choose not to wear one for a reason that I believe is spurious.

What would be my legal status if I refused to teach them?

Am wondering if there are any test cases with regards to this.

What do you do then with the lad who just doesn't want to wear one in class because its not cool.

And let be honest, there will be lads that chance their arm with a mad up excuse. Who polices that?

"I don't have that right, that's why I'm posting."

You asked if you have any legal standing. If you know you don't have the right to refuse to teach kids without masks, what are you asking?

YANBU. It seems everyone and their dog has an excuse for not wearing a mask.

Unfortunately though, there’s probably not much you can do about it because we don’t want to upset anyone.

@FTMF30

"I don't have that right, that's why I'm posting."

You asked if you have any legal standing. If you know you don't have the right to refuse to teach kids without masks, what are you asking?

I asked what my legal status would be if I refused to teach them.

Rights and legal statuses are different.

I was also wondering if there were any legal test cases going on which establish this.

Also - as per the heading of the thread I was also asking if I was being unreasonable to object to teaching students without a reason for not wearing a mask.

Enough questions for ya?

@emilyfrost

YANBU. It seems everyone and their dog has an excuse for not wearing a mask.

Unfortunately though, there’s probably not much you can do about it because we don’t want to upset anyone.

Yep.

And this won't be a popular answer but when it comes to the health of myself and the rest of my class, I think that's more important than upsetting others, whatever their reason for not wearing a mask might be.

And this won't be a popular answer but when it comes to the health of myself and the rest of my class, I think that's more important than upsetting others, whatever their reason for not wearing a mask might be.

I agree, but you’re right, it’s unfortunately not a popular answer. It’s part of the whole PC/snowflake culture we have going on these days.

Madamfrog, exactly.

It’s far too easy here for anyone who doesn’t feel like wearing a mask to say they’re exempt, with no proof. Much of the time I bet it’s just because they’d prefer not to. FGS nobody likes wearing the horrible things.

We need signs everywhere saying masks are obligatory, like they do elsewhere - not ‘Please wear a face covering’ (e.g. my local Asda) which too many people feel free to ignore.

I'm not a teacher but I totally agree with you. You have a right to be adequately protected at work.

I think wearing a mask should be the default. Of course there should be exceptions for those with genuine medical reasons, but these should be properly agreed and recorded, as with any other reasonable adjustments. I don't think you (as an individual) have a right to know why a student isn't wearing a mask, but I do think you're entitled to know which pupils are exempt for a valid reason.

The current situation is unacceptable because anyone can declare themselves exempt simply because they don't like wearing one, and nobody is allowed to question that. That is a totally different situation to someone who has genuine medical reasons, who should of course expect that reasonable adjustments will be made.

@emilyfrost

And this won't be a popular answer but when it comes to the health of myself and the rest of my class, I think that's more important than upsetting others, whatever their reason for not wearing a mask might be.

I agree, but you’re right, it’s unfortunately not a popular answer. It’s part of the whole PC/snowflake culture we have going on these days.

Sorry, I disagree with you. I don't believe we have a PC/snowflake culture. have a culture where we try to show respect to others within reasonable boundaries. This I 100% agree with.

However, part of this culture is about not causing harm to self or others. In this case, I believe my right to health, and the right to health of my other learners, overrides the right to privacy with regards to why a mask exemption is necessary.

I HATE the term snowflake!

YANBU. Teachers are not being protected sufficiently through current guidance, that has become clear. As such I think it is completely reasonable for you to implement safety measures in your workplace. Asking students to wear masks is not unreasonable. Asking why they are unable to and refusing your services if they continue to systematically put you at risk also seems reasonable. However some (hopefully a minority) refuse to accept that their kids are living through a pandemic and have to alter their behaviour and expectations along with the rest of society. Don’t know where you would stand legally unfortunately.

As for the people suggesting you leave the profession if you don’t like it... they are also the ones saying how vitally important education (and childcare) is for their children so I wonder what their response would be when all teachers leave the profession, no one replaces them and the education system collapses?

I thought you meant legal rights.

I think YABU, simply because you'll cause more problems than solving any by forcing anyone to wear a mask. Can you not rearrange the seating plan and keep windows open? I would just do that and if the students don't like it (not so much the windows) then it's too bad. There are things you can control but I don't think the masks are one.

We do have a PC/snowflake culture where everyone’s trying to police your language and your actions, mostly based on their own sensitivities and being personally offended by every small thing.

And you can hate the word all you want, but the majority of those that are precious around masks are that way because they are snowflakes, which is fostered by our snowflake culture.

@FTMF30

I thought you meant legal rights.

I think YABU, simply because you'll cause more problems than solving any by forcing anyone to wear a mask. Can you not rearrange the seating plan and keep windows open? I would just do that and if the students don't like it (not so much the windows) then it's too bad. There are things you can control but I don't think the masks are one.

I don't have an openable window.

We are not allowed to change the seating as it is all measured out to 2m apart.

Any more ideas?

@FTMF30

I thought you meant legal rights.

I think YABU, simply because you'll cause more problems than solving any by forcing anyone to wear a mask. Can you not rearrange the seating plan and keep windows open? I would just do that and if the students don't like it (not so much the windows) then it's too bad. There are things you can control but I don't think the masks are one.

Windows would be nice in many classrooms. Ones that open even better.

@Comefromaway

I love this idealised vision some people have of teaching.

A window!

I dream of a window!

No one wears masks at my daughter's secondary school. They made the decision in August and have yet to review it.
One of my daughter's is exempt and I'd be bloody fuming if she was questioned about it. Her tutor and head of house know.
It's none of your business why some children aren't wearing them.
Legally if they are exempt they don't have to wear a mask. I'm sure they don't have to wear one in the classroom (well I hope that's the case if children's school aren't enforcing it). If they don't have to wear a mask then I don't think you can refuse to teach them.

Can you access a TA for your class (dont laugh, just think You sound like in specialist school) that would be happy to do the moving about the class stuff so you can stay behind a line?

You should not be in a class without an openable window. That would bother me more, or at least as much as, the masks

I agree with you evenmore.

If you aren’t able to wear a mask, online learning is the answer.

Why should a TA have to put themselves in danger? . No adults should be moving around close to the pupils, in theory.

OP isn’t asking for personal medical info, just a check sheet of exempt pupils in their class so the chancers can’t say “I’m exempt” or “My Mum said I didn’t have to wear one”.

Are you in control of the seating plan, OP?

Can you seat any kids without masks at the back of the class, as far away from you as possible?

You should not be in a class without an openable window. That would bother me more, or at least as much as, the masks

My teenage dd often spends the entire day in a classroom without windows. It really concerns me, but there aren't enough classrooms in the school with adequate ventilation. They have at least ensured that the most vulnerable staff are in the biggest rooms with plenty of windows. Parents were also personally called by the Headteacher to ask their children to wear masks in lessons with these teachers. Compliance has been pretty good according to dd.

I can see the argument that people shouldn't be interrogated by everyone they meet about not wearing a mask. However in a "closed" environment such as a school or college, it would be easy enough for the school to ask parents to let them know if their child should be exempt, and then distribute the list of exempted students to staff (without reasons).

I would love to see masks required in secondary schools, although I would be happy if that was "except when working with a deaf student" - of which there are several in DD's school.

@Saucery

Why should a TA have to put themselves in danger? . No adults should be moving around close to the pupils, in theory.

OP isn’t asking for personal medical info, just a check sheet of exempt pupils in their class so the chancers can’t say “I’m exempt” or “My Mum said I didn’t have to wear one”.

A TA might not consider it "putting themselves in danger". People have different levels of risk and vulnerability. No need for the fucking face.

And yes, no one should in theory, but that is not the practice unfortunately due to necessity.

@mydogsmells

it doesn't matter whether the TA sees it as them putting themselves at danger.

They are.

And they are in the workplace.

And on Mumsnet you have to learn to let the faces go. It's not personal.

And it's not 'necessity' unless someone has a valid reason for not wearing a mask.