To think if you're married there's no risk to be a SAHM?

[southparkroses]

I keep reading on here that it's risky for the woman to give up work to look after children, but if you're married, isn't that protection enough?

It absolutely is not safe.
I had to go part time as I suddenly became very ill and had to go into hospital, I could have managed the house, bills everything on my full time wage no problem but husband said he would take care of me.
He pissed off about one week later and I was absolutely fucked, wanted a pay out and I was left ill with a part time job with a disability.
I had to sell up and move halfway across the country to get another full time job in my field while barely functioning physically. It was absolutely horrendous.
I'm settled now in a nice low maintenance new home but it was horrific and several times I almost went under.
This was someone I was married to for 20 years and who supposedly loved me and would never leave me.

I'll never trust a man again. They cannot be trusted, they say one thing and mean another. I thought this was my life partner.

No
Family law has evolved
So no

I married at 25 and had two children before 30. I've still got a career. Family comes first to most people, doesnt it?

[quote AmICrazyorWhat2]@smurfette1818. Just my personal experience but the few long-term SAHPs I know aren’t at home doing housework most of the time. They serve on non-profit boards, are v. active in their communities, fundraise, etc. They’re the people with the time, money and energy to do this while other people are at work. Mind you, these are well-off people so they’d have cleaners as well.🤣[/quote]
@thepeopleversuswork @AmICrazyorWhat2 Thank you

I suppose what you both described is essentially a part time SAHP? so the SAHPs who are either have some supports (because money is plenty) or the children are slightly older, so he/she would spend probably 50% of her time doing SAHM role and another 50% to do whatever he/she fancies (attending classes, voluntary work) which is more pleasurable than work, again because money is not an issue so she doesn't have to go back to work when the children are older.

Most families do not have that luxury I think, either one partner do full time SAHP role or both parents work and split the chores.

@thepeopleversuswork I completely agreed that if someone is smart and creative, life would likely be a lot more interesting if one is free of responsibility of earning money . Imagine all the possibilities, classes, books, galleries, doing degree after degree, launching a new career, involved in all sort of community groups, not to mention the thinking time. There is definitely a lot of room to improve and make yourself more interesting, before you know it the SAHP would probably find the working parent is the dull one.

I also with you about SAHPs often facilitate the life of the working parent to the extent that the working parent's life is a lot easier than when he was single!

I have a feeling my question doesn't really help OP

I’ve been a stay at hime mum for 14 years. Also a carer for our eldest. I had no choice, DH will always earn more than me. Impossible to work. God knows who’d employ me now!

He pissed off about one week later and I was absolutely fucked, wanted a pay out and I was left ill with a part time job with a disability.
I had to sell up and move halfway across the country to get another full time job in my field while barely functioning physically. It was absolutely horrendous.

This is the trouble though, long term sahp cannot/will not believe that their husband is capable of this behaviour. "On no, not my Steve! He's the most wonderful, lovely, kind man you'd ever hope to meet!", but then bam, they find out lovely Steve has been banging Stacey from Accounts for the past four years and they're in "love" and, sorry, but old wifey doesn't cut it anymore, see ya! It happens out of the blue time, and time, and time again. I feel for those who have no choice but to be a long term sahp (relative needs care, etc). But for those who have a choice, life can change in an instant. And then you're screwed. Unless of course you're really rich, and then it doesn't matter if he dies or fucks off with Stacey. But most of us aren't that wealthy.

Well with property prices now in London it’s really difficult to live separately unless you have a very high paying job, whilst doing majority of childcare, so if you split it’s a choice of moving to a cheaper area. Always have a separate savings account and save as much in your own name.

And can we all just agree here and now: SAHMs aren’t all dull women only interested in housework and nappies; and WOHMs aren’t all neglectful harridans more interested in getting manicures and spa treatments than spending time with their own children?

I really don't understand that divisiveness especially as lots of women, like me will do/have done a combination of all the possibilities.

It's very easy to drop such a job and walk straight into a new one once the children are back at school. again I wonder how recently you've been job hunting.

It's certainly not the case at the moment.

I may stick to something low wage and part time to work around school hours good luck with that (genuinely) because in 16 years as a single mum with a pretty good cv and experience I never managed to find this holy grail! Such jobs are like hens teeth (and that was way before Brexit and coronavirus) and generally more a case of who you know than what you know.

Hell even finding a job in "office hours" due to childcare constraints was bloody tough!

And yes I mean job not career I've not been able to have anything approaching a career since before dd, for a variety of reasons.

I would advise if that is your plan that you start looking at job ads ASAP and getting a true knowledge of what is...or rather isn't out there in preparation.

So if you feel safe because you can walk back into a low paid little part time job or maybe you will not need to work at all, you must be independently wealthy and of course this topic doesn't apply to you. Most people can't pay their mortgage and living expenses from that salary, can they. also true which is why so many IN WORK are at the mercy of the benefits system - which I've also got almost 20 years experience of in various forms and can assure you is a nightmare at the moment.

And yes the risk doesn't come to bear WHILE a sahm but if circumstances change - separation from, critical illness or death of the main earner.

As for the deleted post, what complete and utter narrow minded nonsense! Yes I'm divorced but actually I married youngish, yes ex left for ow but she's far more career oriented than I was! Plus as the rebuttal and I have said throughout its NOT just separation/divorce (though with divorce rates at roughly 50% that definitely needs to be a consideration) it's also critical illness and death that can cause major financial hardship.

My main reason for strongly advising marriage especially if going part time/becoming a sahp is actually because of what I saw happen to a relative who was an unmarried sahm when their partner died very unexpectedly and very young. Everything financial including the family home was in his name and she basically at the worst time possible lost everything and had to return to full time work and place 2 grieving, lost children in childcare. Awful situation.

So no it's not coming from a place of "bitterness" not least because if I'd NOT been married I'd have been worse off after my own divorce than I was.

I'm very glad I married, I didn't marry purely because of the better security of being married though it was one consideration, mainly my ex (army, high risk sector) was in a job where his life was at risk whenever he was on an op and that was my main practical concern. In addition it's bloody expensive trailing after a partner if you're not married, if married the army covers a lot of the costs and means you're eligible for army accommodation which is not free but is subsidised, some parts of the country it's not hugely cheaper than local prices but other parts especially SE it makes a big difference. There's also a lot of practical, organisational and frankly emotional support that you simply can't access or not easily unless you're married.

As an army brat I knew this more than a "civilian" coming into the situation (that said having grown up around squaddies I shoulda known better than to marry one and expect him to be faithful!)

But my main reason for marrying WAS love, and wanting to be with and support and have a partnership with my husband. Which I did for 10+ years.

It's deeply insulting to say people who marry considering the practicalities and legalities of doing so, aren't doing so for love!

It's particularly vile to make those comments to women who've been sadly widowed or are now caring for an incapacitated spouse.

In fact question - if your family are SO "good at relationships" that they never split why marry at all?

@madcatladyforever So sorry for what happened to you.

Unfortunately as myself and others have said there's no telling what someone will do when you split from them.

@YouJustDoYou Yep! Relationships board is littered with so many threads by women who never believed their partner/spouse would behave to so awfully.

I remember when I was first on/reading mn (can't remember if I was on or just lurking at this point) there was a poster who incredibly bravely didn't name change and started a thread asking for help/support following his leaving for ow - brave because she'd previously been a "smug married" who had strongly advocated trusting your spouse/partner and not snooping through phones etc, was certain he'd never do anything like that because she had 'chosen wisely' her spouse, she'd previously thought that those of us who'd also been blindsided must have willingly ignored red flags (army jokes aside) or chosen poorly and so were partly responsible for their circumstances. She did a massive mea culpa

@BoundlessRoots have you never heard "pride comes before a fall"?

Nobody is perfect, and you can't control everything, certainly not the actions of a spouse/partner.

Really annoying when quoting differences don't show on the app

Just to be clear posting again

And can we all just agree here and now: SAHMs aren’t all dull women only interested in housework and nappies; and WOHMs aren’t all neglectful harridans more interested in getting manicures and spa treatments than spending time with their own children?

I really don't understand that divisiveness especially as lots of women, like me will do/have done a combination of all the possibilities.

It's very easy to drop such a job and walk straight into a new one once the children are back at school. again I wonder how recently you've been job hunting.

It's certainly not the case at the moment.

I may stick to something low wage and part time to work around school hours

good luck with that (genuinely) because in 16 years as a single mum with a pretty good cv and experience I never managed to find this holy grail! Such jobs are like hens teeth (and that was way before Brexit and coronavirus) and generally more a case of who you know than what you know.

Hell even finding a job in "office hours" due to childcare constraints was bloody tough!

And yes I mean job not career I've not been able to have anything approaching a career since before dd, for a variety of reasons.

I would advise if that is your plan that you start looking at job ads ASAP and getting a true knowledge of what is...or rather isn't out there in preparation.

So if you feel safe because you can walk back into a low paid little part time job or maybe you will not need to work at all, you must be independently wealthy and of course this topic doesn't apply to you. Most people can't pay their mortgage and living expenses from that salary, can they.

also true which is why so many IN WORK are at the mercy of the benefits system - which I've also got almost 20 years experience of in various forms and can assure you is a nightmare at the moment.

And yes the risk doesn't come to bear WHILE a sahm but if circumstances change - separation from, critical illness or death of the main earner.

As for the deleted post, what complete and utter narrow minded nonsense! Yes I'm divorced but actually I married youngish, yes ex left for ow but she's far more career oriented than I was! Plus as the rebuttal and I have said throughout its NOT just separation/divorce (though with divorce rates at roughly 50% that definitely needs to be a consideration) it's also critical illness and death that can cause major financial hardship.

My main reason for strongly advising marriage especially if going part time/becoming a sahp is actually because of what I saw happen to a relative who was an unmarried sahm when their partner died very unexpectedly and very young. Everything financial including the family home was in his name and she basically at the worst time possible lost everything and had to return to full time work and place 2 grieving, lost children in childcare. Awful situation.

So no it's not coming from a place of "bitterness" not least because if I'd NOT been married I'd have been worse off after my own divorce than I was.

I'm very glad I married, I didn't marry purely because of the better security of being married though it was one consideration, mainly my ex (army, high risk sector) was in a job where his life was at risk whenever he was on an op and that was my main practical concern. In addition it's bloody expensive trailing after a partner if you're not married, if married the army covers a lot of the costs and means you're eligible for army accommodation which is not free but is subsidised, some parts of the country it's not hugely cheaper than local prices but other parts especially SE it makes a big difference. There's also a lot of practical, organisational and frankly emotional support that you simply can't access or not easily unless you're married.

As an army brat I knew this more than a "civilian" coming into the situation (that said having grown up around squaddies I shoulda known better than to marry one and expect him to be faithful!)

But my main reason for marrying WAS love, and wanting to be with and support and have a partnership with my husband. Which I did for 10+ years.

It's deeply insulting to say people who marry considering the practicalities and legalities of doing so, aren't doing so for love!

It's particularly vile to make those comments to women who've been sadly widowed or are now caring for an incapacitated spouse.

In fact question - if your family are SO "good at relationships" that they never split why marry at all?

@madcatladyforever So sorry for what happened to you.

Unfortunately as myself and others have said there's no telling what someone will do when you split from them.

@YouJustDoYou Yep! Relationships board is littered with so many threads by women who never believed their partner/spouse would behave to so awfully.

I remember when I was first on/reading mn (can't remember if I was on or just lurking at this point) there was a poster who incredibly bravely didn't name change and started a thread asking for help/support following his leaving for ow - brave because she'd previously been a "smug married" who had strongly advocated trusting your spouse/partner and not snooping through phones etc, was certain he'd never do anything like that because she had 'chosen wisely' her spouse, she'd previously thought that those of us who'd also been blindsided must have willingly ignored red flags (army jokes aside) or chosen poorly and so were partly responsible for their circumstances. She did a massive mea culpa

@BoundlessRoots have you never heard "pride comes before a fall"?

Nobody is perfect, and you can't control everything, certainly not the actions of a spouse/partner.

Graphista

Well said.

And BoundlessRoots you should be ashamed of yourself.

Meanwhile, in the real world, lots of people are in bog standard jobs and have no desire to "climb the ladder." It's very easy to drop such a job and walk straight into a new one once the children are back at school. I'll be heading back to work once the children are both in school, and I'll be 38. I'm not remotely concerned about finding a job. I may stick to something low wage and part time to work around school hours

Please do come back and tell us how that works out for you.

Jobs that work around school hours are like hens teeth.

Bog standard jobs aren’t as easily come by either when you’re older. There’s still a lot of predjudice about women of a certain age- that they’ll be taking lots of time off for sick kids. That and you’re up against fresh faced, cheap 19 year olds.

Then if you do get your bog standard job, how do you factor in 13 weeks holiday? You don’t get that much annual leave, and will it pay enough for before and after school care, plus holiday camps etc?

Everyone needs their own money. In my experience you are treated worse when you are vulnerable and you are very vulnerable without your own resources. Like a poster said upthread you can recover quicker from a relationship breakdown if you have your own money

I know a couple of SAHMs - they'd both been in admin before. They both tried to go back to work in their 50s after 15 years out, via the local hospitality industry but they couldn't hack it even working part time. Neither is working now.

There are huge risks - possible relationship break up, effect on unemployability, pension etc.

bluebluezoo

Exactly.

Plus this whole "climb the ladder" trope is such a load of patronising shite.

If you want to have any degree of control over your financial security you need to work reasonably hard and think a bit about the kind of job you want to do.

There is a huge universe of alternatives between being a shoulder pad-wielding corporate type straight out of Ali McBeal and doing a minimum wage job.

Even in 'normal times' low paid, part time jobs that fit around school are very hard to get as that's what a lot of parents want and as often entry level you'll have lots of competition whereas a high paid more specialist job will have a smaller field of suitable applicants.
I ended up working in a pub for a year after being a sahm - it did fit in well round the kids but is probably not what you're imagining in terms of a low stress kid friendly job. I had applied for lots of school office , library assistant jobs but rarely even heard back . This was as a sahm when I had loads of voluntary work on my cv.
Interestingly once I had an actual employer paying me a wage and a year of payed employment I started to get somewhere.

@Thirtyrock39. I agree that it can be a slog getting back into paid employment, but I personally found that volunteering helped when I was out of the workforce for a few years in my 30’s. I was hired at a managerial level by an organization I’d previously volunteered for. Now I’m self-employed as a consultant in the same field so word of mouth recommendations are really important.

It’s saved me from some not-so- great environments. A position came up over the summer that I’d be a good fit for and it’s literally up the road from me. But through my local volunteering, I‘d heard that this organization has some toxic people so I didn’t bother applying.🤣

I've posted DM's story here before but will post it again as it's a good example as to what can happen. Parents were married 35 years, Mum was a SAHM raising the DC. 6 months before he died, my Dad started an affair with someone he knew from his uni days, they reconnected on Friends Reunited.

He left Mum (although they remained married), rewrote his will, leaving his half of the marital home to his mistress of 6 months (ownership had been changed to tennents in common for tax planning purposes), he also tried to leave his pension and life insurance policies to his mistress. Mum had no pension provision of her own having been a SAHM.

It took 2 years of legal battles and £30k of fees for her to eventually be awarded the pension (thank God). She lost the life insurance policies and had to sell the marital home and hand over half the value to the mistress. I vowed to always work having witnessed the fall out, I would never want to experience the 2 horrific years of stress she suffered.

What about if you actually don't want to work and have time out to look after your kids and you consider it maybe risky but are happy to take it , I wanted to spend time with my kids and them not to be in full time nursery
I personally took that risk and me and dh have been together 21 now I had a few years out then had a few min wage jobs then got a great job and had been there close on 10 years and made redundant and now can't find a job and min wage jobs also think your not worth employing as you will be off when something better comes along so having a career and job guarantees nothing either
But if you want to be a sahm be one , if you want to have a career and child then do that
What works for one doesn't work for another , what works best for your family just consider all the risks and benefits and downsides to both, there is no right or wring

That and you’re up against fresh faced, cheap 19 year olds.

My Dd is a "fresh faced, cheap 19 year old" she's job hunting for part time work to fit around uni, and even she is struggling!

There just AREN'T a ton of even nmw jobs available!

@edwinbear I'm so sorry your mum went through all that! Horrific!

I've witnessed as a nurse some dreadful scenarios when someone's died - let's just say bigamy isn't as rare as some might think!

Marriage doesn't give you automatic right to take 50% of husbands assets (despite the advice I see on the mn a lot!) so if you divorce etc there's no guarantee that you'll be financially sound. Yes you'd have a better position that those who aren't married, but it's definitely still a real risk that women need to properly consider. I totally understand that it's hard, and you will always just think it won't happen to you because DH is brilliant/trustworthy etc. But it does happen sadly. Not always, of course, but it happens enough to be a risk.

I've been a graduate SAHM for 10 years. I felt being there for my children was the most important work I could do. I left a full time job on £27K and now earn £12K part time pro-rata. I am shocked by how little value (outright contempt?) is placed on mothering and life skills in the workplace but I'm coping ok despite a 10 year break.

It's not an easy option - it is mentally and physically draining and your partner will probably treat you like his skinny. But they grow up so fast and you never know what life brings- I wouldn't swap my time with my children for any amount of money.

Ok, well, right now dh's job is on the jobs thanks to covid. I am in zero hours- I had a great amount of work available pre covid, but since, nothing. And having to get the kids constantly fucking tested for winter colds has completely screwed me over. So, right now, we are in trouble. And if I hadn't the work in the first place I'd be a decade without references or work experience in a world where most jobs have hundreds of people applying. Being a sahp was wonderful , but getting employment is about security - financial security, job security, life security. I need a proper contract, but at least I have references now and some recent experience, so if dh loses his job, which he is likely to do, and we have no income and no savings , I stand more of a slim chance of getting a job yo earn the money to pay the bills.