To think that 70% should not be an A

[Arealmanithink]

Background: I'm American. Grading is different in the US. In the US, the scoring goes , 89-100% = A, 79-89% = B, 69-79% =C anything below 65% is failing. I don't think the school work is that different but I do think that the standards are lower in the UK. I'm amazed.

In fairness, Daphnise, many commentating on this thread seem to have little idea that the US is composed of 50 different states with widely differing school systems within each state but are talking about it as if it was one country like England or Scotland.

In Scotland we also study a wider range of subjects for our Highers: typically 5, with some people doing more alongside or instead of Advanced Highers in S6.

And then in the Scottish 4 year degrees, we study additional subjects in 1st year and 2nd year, to the extent that students often end up doing a different degree to the one that they applied to Uni to do.

(Technically, if you've done Advanced Highers/A Levels you may be able to go direct into 2nd year, but in practice, most people take advantage of the breadth offered by the 4 year degree).

In Scotland, iirc, you not only have to have done your degree in the subject you want to teach (at secondary school level) but you also have to have done your PGDE in that subject.

@Tenpintonpin

Lobster - if there is any chance that your daughter may want to train as a secondary teacher in the UK, she will need to make sure that at least 50% of her degree is in the subject she wishes to teach.

A number of UK Universities seem to offer multi-subject Liberal Arts degrees now (eg Durham, UCL, Exeter and Birmingham), so she should have lots of options available

Her dad was a UK secondary school teacher and I think he's frightened her off teaching in the UK for life :-)

I think she'd like to do do her undergrad in the UK then an Education masters in the US. Her family all live in the UK, and she was born there. She actually nearly did her junior year of high school there but it got too complicated.

A year abroad somewhere Spanish speaking would be the icing on the cake.

What I love about these US vs UK threads is that I always learn useful stuff in them.

@prettybird

In Scotland we also study a wider range of subjects for our Highers: typically 5, with some people doing more alongside or instead of Advanced Highers in S6.

And then in the Scottish 4 year degrees, we study additional subjects in 1st year and 2nd year, to the extent that students often end up doing a different degree to the one that they applied to Uni to do.

(Technically, if you've done Advanced Highers/A Levels you may be able to go direct into 2nd year, but in practice, most people take advantage of the breadth offered by the 4 year degree).

Reading with interest - a million years ago I got a place at Edinburgh University but didn't end up going. Several of the teens I know here in the US have gone to Scottish universities - Glasgow, Dundee, and St Andrews IIRC.

I was thinking Edinburgh would be a good choice for your DD Lobster.

If most students get an A* then the barrier to that grade needs to be lifted.

In the 80s only around 15% got an A

Everyone cannot be excellent.

Sad to admit but some students are more academically excellent than others.

If most students are excellent then just about everyone can go to uni, everyone will get a first class honours degree and everyone will get a top job in the career field of their choice!

Not sustainable.

Ha! As an ex Secondary teacher I think I am with her Dad on that one

The Birmingham Uni programme is a 4 year course with the 3rd year overseas: www.birmingham.ac.uk/undergraduate/courses/liberal-arts/liberal-arts-and-sciences.aspx

I’m from NZ and the US standards are the same as the universities here. 70% would be a B at best.

I attended university in the US and the UK, IME an American A is equivalent to a 70% in the UK.

@1Morewineplease

If most students get an A* then the barrier to that grade needs to be lifted.

In the 80s only around 15% got an A

Everyone cannot be excellent.

Sad to admit but some students are more academically excellent than others.

If most students are excellent then just about everyone can go to uni, everyone will get a first class honours degree and everyone will get a top job in the career field of their choice!

Not sustainable.

What about if the number and ability of students taking a course is limited to high flying students?

So only those who are likely to get top grades are let on the course?

Then more of them,as a percentage are going to get the top grades - because being able to solve simultaneous quadratic equations whilst working out the interception of 2 circles etc should be what the grade means rather than worrying about the percentage who pass.

So maybe proportionally more pupils are getting higher grades, not because the exams are easier (etc) but because for some subjects - only those pupils likely to do well are admitted on the course.

Or maybe they are allowed to do the course but not allowed to take the exams.

I think 20% of pupils roughly get 7 - 9 in maths and of that group, 20% get a 9.

So 4% get a 9.

.... having said that, a 70% in the UK is not a bad grade at all!

As far as I’m aware the A* only goes to the 2% of the students.

A standard US HS diploma is equivalent to 5 GCSE's. You only need AS levels to get into a good US uni. A level students can skip the first year of uni in the US and IB can probably skip two. The US doesn't have a standardised education system - it's a lottery depending on state and school district. There is no real comparison. In the US there is an obsession with getting a Masters, it seems as though without it it's almost like you don't have a degree and has to make you question what level a degree is in the US.

I remember being quite horrified when I learnt that to practice as a registered nurse you only needed to get a pass of 40% in your studies. I found it quite worrying to be honest.

@TheTeenageYears

A standard US HS diploma is equivalent to 5 GCSE's. You only need AS levels to get into a good US uni. A level students can skip the first year of uni in the US and IB can probably skip two. The US doesn't have a standardised education system - it's a lottery depending on state and school district. There is no real comparison. In the US there is an obsession with getting a Masters, it seems as though without it it's almost like you don't have a degree and has to make you question what level a degree is in the US.

I must be missing something.

To get into her 'good uni' DD needed a GPA of 4.0+, SAT of 1500+, at least 5 APs, 2-3 SAT subject tests, a rounded resume including volunteer experience and evidence of leadership and 'grit', a language, a musical instrument, and... oh... her high school diploma.

Not Ivy League btw...

‘I remember being quite horrified when I learnt that to practice as a registered nurse you only needed to get a pass of 40% in your studies. I found it quite worrying to be honest.‘

Why is this horrifying? Whoever designed the course worked out that 40% was the minimum standard required to be a competent nurse. It’s just a number.

I was once awarded 98% on a piece of coursework at University. I'm not sure how exceptional it actually was or whether I just hit all of the learning outcomes. The 70% is an A/1st comparison with American Universities doesn't really mean anything as the marking criteria will be different.

@HoldMyLobster are you talking about a DD in the US needing those requirements to get into a US uni?

US and UK education systems are a lot different. It's impossible to compare. An A* student here might struggle in the USA, and vice versa.

Been to both and some other European schools.

US only ahead of the Rudolf Steiner school! That was 30 rs ago now but I whistled my way through US school - even came top in Math and that was seriously neve going to happen in any other country.

IB harder than A levels
O Levels harder than GCSEs but not as had as my Austrian school exams

[quote TheTeenageYears]@HoldMyLobster are you talking about a DD in the US needing those requirements to get into a US uni? [/quote]
Yes I am. I'm not sure why that would surprise you - it's not unusual for a good US university.

I was under the impression you needed excellent SAT scores and AP classes to get into the top US universities. Isn’t it supposed to be massively competitive?

I also used to teach university foundation year Science and was going through the course with an American friend. They had done the same experiments in AP Science.

Your comparison is meaningless

So if anything that proves that perhaps American standards must be lower