To think that 70% should not be an A

[Arealmanithink]

Background: I'm American. Grading is different in the US. In the US, the scoring goes , 89-100% = A, 79-89% = B, 69-79% =C anything below 65% is failing. I don't think the school work is that different but I do think that the standards are lower in the UK. I'm amazed.

@chomalungma

If people are interested, these are the grade boundaries and marks you need to get certain grades

filestore.aqa.org.uk/over/stat_pdf/AQA-GCSE-GDE-BDY-JUN-2019.PDF

From June 2019 for AQA

To get a 5, you need 157/240 on Foundation
or 74/240 on the Higher

So 65% on Foundation and 31% on Higher?

Sounds about right. Comparable to 30+ years ago, at any rate.

You also have to remember that the exams you sit at the end of high school at age 18 are sat at the end of high school in the UK at 16.

What exams are you referring to here?

@Zoecarter

In America you get points for attending and participating it’s much easier to get an A in america

Oh if only. My son with ADHD would getting A+++ if this was the case.

I agree with Mitzi. DD got 100% in one of her GCSEs and came out with a C as she sat lower tier paper.

We were worried that if she sat the higher tier she might get a b or she might panic and fail completely.

@notaladyinred

American school tests are multiple choice, which skews comparisons rather.

Good old multiple guess, the saviour of many a lower performing student (including me)

UK exams are harder. It is harder to get 70% in the uk than it is in US.

If people on here have been a bit defensive then it is probably because they don't like the implication that our system is 'wrong'

So 65% on Foundation and 31% on Higher

Working at Grade 4 I see

PMSL at this. We have a family member who went to study maths at a very good university in the US and said the standard was way below our A Level system.
Also have 2 cousins who teach out there and they also say that standards are higher in the UK.

An interesting fact, given that the far East is often stated as having amazing education, is that when pupils from here come here for sixth form, they often start a year below others their age.
So pupils whose age means they should be in year 13 join in year 12. I'm sure that by the end they achieve high standards, but in the UK the pupils are working a year ahead of those in the far East, which presumably means in the UK it is harder and the pupils are comparatively cleverer in each year group. Although the fact that in the far East they continue school education until 19 (so a year extra) also means they may be at a higher standard when they leave school.

I was talking about the higher GCSE @chomalungma but really I was making the point that one can’t assess ease or difficulty from an arbitrary number as I feel the need to defend today’s youngsters from accusations of having easy exams. Beyond that point I’m not claiming to have any knowledge and I only discovered there was a foundation paper recently. Sorry to frustrate you with my CSE thinking.

@fortyducks

From what I've heard, people coming to university in the UK from elsewhere in Europe are well ahead of students here.

Not my experience.

Most American state secondary schools stick with multiple choice tests. I attended a private school with much higher standards. Afterwards, I attended a prestigious Seven Sisters college, finding their essay marking scheme easier than high school. In high school, we had answer essay questions such as: Was the Civil War Inevitable? If so, when and why did it become inevitable. We also took lab sciences with weekly reports.
American writing standards are very poor. An ex taught an introductory Lingustics course. Her students wrote essays at a twelve year old level without paragraphs or punctuation.

It is my experience that EU students are often among the highest achieving in UK universities but they're not a representative sample. A student with the drive to study in another country is often going to be the most motivated of their peers. Similarly I know a few people who went to study in the US and they were all very bright and hard working but you couldn't conclude from them that all British teenagers are and chalk it up as a credit to the educational system.

I do think that the standards are lower in the UK

From teaching children who have arrived in the UK from the US schooling system, I don't think that's true.

I did a stint a US high school, I wholeheartedly disagree that schooling is at the same level.

I was 16. We were being taught basics that were covered at 12/13 back in the UK.

In the UK I was on track for an average A in English. I certainly wasn't the highest achiever in the class. In the US I was told my essay was university standard.

I also think that on average European undergraduates are stronger than UK ones.

In my completely unsubstantiated ranking: EU, then UK, then US

Expats' kids, too, are often more high-achieving than average in their home country - by definition they normally have well-educated, professional parents which gives them an advantage on average - so can't be taken as a good sample of standards in their home country. It's like when British people think everyone speaks English, when they're thinking of either people who have chosen to live in England or people who work in tourism in areas that cater heavily to English-speakers. You're not taking a good sample.

Most American state secondary schools stick with multiple choice tests. I attended a private school with much higher standards. Afterwards, I attended a prestigious Seven Sisters college, finding their essay marking scheme easier than high school. In high school, we had answer essay questions such as: Was the Civil War Inevitable? If so, when and why did it become inevitable. We also took lab sciences with weekly reports.

This is exactly the sort of thing my two do in their state high school and is totally normal for a New England high school.

I know somebody from Europe who was fantastic in her subject, barely had to study for the first two years. But she went to a maths and science specialist high school, so she was confident with a lot of the maths already. In fairness, she did have great aptitude for the subject, but in the first couple of years, everybody from the same country as her did extremely well, because they just weren't learning as much new content.

She cheerfully admitted that if you'd put her in a history course (even in her native language) she'd have really struggled.

My DSis lives in America @Arealmanithink and complains that the education system is appalling. Her DSs are very bright but are being held behind by a system that apparently educates everyone the same way rather than be tailored to different abilities. I think her eldest DS is on the spectrum actually due to his OCD behaviour and he's very very good at Maths. Would never tell her that though. She doesn't like it. She supplements with additional home learning - especially over lockdown - and is tempted to change to home learning permanently were it not for the loss of social interaction.

Oops, sorry, so I was going to say I'm not sure it's as easy as "one system is better than another".

I do like the sound of an American degree with majors and minors. I loved some of the combinations — majoring in Physics, with minors of dance and Japanese history. St Andrews used to have a bagpipe course, which was very popular with visiting US students (if maybe not their flatmates).

The defensiveness from some on this thread is palpable.
We had American students at uni they arrived all clean livin & returned home in quite an altered state. Found the bar and were never the same again

The 70 mark isn’t about U.K. students being more or less capable than the USians. It’s about having a wider band available to make distinctions between excellent students.

@PolkadotsAndMoonbeams

Oops, sorry, so I was going to say I'm not sure it's as easy as "one system is better than another".

I do like the sound of an American degree with majors and minors. I loved some of the combinations — majoring in Physics, with minors of dance and Japanese history. St Andrews used to have a bagpipe course, which was very popular with visiting US students (if maybe not their flatmates).

Yes - there's a big difference between the goals of US and UK degrees.

My daughter is studying a US degree in Computer Science. This is her second year, and this term as well as her CS classes she's taking Linear Algebra, Introduction to Existentialism, Sociology - Race & Society and she's doing a Spanish class taught entirely in Spanish in which they discuss the individual in Spanish society and literature. She's also taking music classes.

That's one term - they do 3 terms per year. Last year she did Chemistry, Psychology, more Spanish, Russian Lit, and studied the Chinese Revolution and Latin American government.

Ok my UK MSc (HR) grades have been 71, 68, 66, 68. Are these ok grades? BC for my undergrad in Canada I had an 85% average. I'm not a scholar by any means but I do try hard. I didn't realise that the grading was different at first and I was so disappointed with my grades.

Most U.K. universities allow you to do undergraduate language modules for free in addition to your degree. Many offer subsidiary subjects, combined and joint degrees.