To think that 70% should not be an A

[Arealmanithink]

Background: I'm American. Grading is different in the US. In the US, the scoring goes , 89-100% = A, 79-89% = B, 69-79% =C anything below 65% is failing. I don't think the school work is that different but I do think that the standards are lower in the UK. I'm amazed.

@Stripesgalore

Most U.K. universities allow you to do undergraduate language modules for free in addition to your degree. Many offer subsidiary subjects, combined and joint degrees.

Interesting - so my middle child is interested in UK universities and wants to be able to study Spanish, history, economics, philosophy, politics and music.

Where should she look?

@CrazyToast

In UK universities it is difficult to get above 80% in many subjects, impossible in others. I guess in Maths and quantifiable stuff it is possible to get 100% but if you are doing Arts or Humanities, 70% is more like 95% because no one ever really gets above 80%. Quite ridiculous really.

Have to say in my last uni course there were some exams - the maths one you had to get 100% to pass, the multiple choice you had to get 80% - your essays were still graded at 40% pass, 50%, 60%, 70% etc - can't remember how the each equated to what you were awarded for classification

The system for accruing marks is quite different - often US programmes have small tests on a weekly basis that add up to the final grade over the whole semester, whereas in the U.K. the mark is more likely to be dependent on one or two larger and more complex pieces of assessment.

Meant to say, her long term goal is to become a teacher.

BTW I will never forget our maths exam on my UK degree. It was an open book statistics exam, and you had to get 40% to pass.

I'm still astonished some people failed.

Lobster, for a PPE course (they cover politics, philosophy, economics and so inevitably history). Music could be a first year subsidiary and then sign up for free Spanish.

I teach some Americans who have moved over in year 10. They were top of the class in the US but working at a grade 4 here.

I was told by American military families that if their child attends a UK primary school they're about a year ahead when they return to the US.

@Stripesgalore

Lobster, for a PPE course (they cover politics, philosophy, economics and so inevitably history). Music could be a first year subsidiary and then sign up for free Spanish.

Thanks, good to know. What level would the Spanish be? She has the equivalent of A level at the moment. She's currently around A level standard.

I was told by American military families that if their child attends a UK primary school they're about a year ahead when they return to the US.

My husband went from a US primary school to a UK primary school and was immediately moved up a year.

are you sure though because DD friend left to live in the US and is currently in the US Year 6 but would be in the UK Year 7.

Because the years dont correspond. UK schools dont tend to be flexible on age

They start you at the level above where you currently at. It’s based on a European framework.

If you started with no Spanish they would start you from scratch. If you had higher skills they would start you at an appropriate level in a different class.

Regarding grades and % required to get them, to avoid runaway grade inflation you have to control grades. You can either;

• set an exam and then use different grade boundaries every year which are adjusted to reflect the difficulty of the exam and ensure the same % of students get the different grades each year (this is quite achievable for exam boards)

Or

• say a certain % is a grade and ensure that every single year the paper has exactly the same level of difficulty (this is extremely difficult to achieve)

Lots of exams these days require a very low % for some of the higher grades. Whilst on one level I think it doesn't matter as long as the right numbers of students get the actual grades, on another level it does matter from a learning perspective. If a paper is so hard that the very best, top grade students can only ever achieve 65% (or whatever it is) the actual learning experience is rather depressing. Even the very best students, no matter how hard they try and work and how clever they are, can't get really high raw marks. They are always left feeling lie just heir answer so real not good enough and huge improvement is needed. It's not satisfying and of course huge improvement isn't needed. For the lower grade students the experience is even worse. A B or C grade student might be getting well over half the questions wrong or even 2/3 wrong despite achieving so-called good passes.

The exams are too difficult if even the very top students cannot achieve a high raw mark with hard work. They either set the standard per question too high or ask for too much to be done in the time.

So I think inevitably grade boundaries need to move each year and also don't need to be astronomically high.....but Inalso think that excessively low boundaries for top grades show a problem in the system itself which means the actual learning experience through a 2 or 3 year course isn't very pleasant. It's demoralising if even the cleverest student can only get 12/20 on an essay. It means the remaining 8 marks are inaccessible. And there's no point in having non-accessible marks. The full range of marks available should be achieved by the full cohort of students with their varying ability levels.

@Quartz2208

are you sure though because DD friend left to live in the US and is currently in the US Year 6 but would be in the UK Year 7.

Because the years dont correspond. UK schools dont tend to be flexible on age

Yes I'm sure. He turned 17 during his final year of UK school.

@Stripesgalore

They start you at the level above where you currently at. It’s based on a European framework.

If you started with no Spanish they would start you from scratch. If you had higher skills they would start you at an appropriate level in a different class.

This is great - thank you. I'm going to have her look at some PPE degrees. She's fascinated by all three subjects but doesn't want to lose the Spanish and loves music.

Also, already having Spanish at that level she could do one of her university years abroad, so worth seeing which universities the U.K. uni swaps students with.

And PPE is a really highly regarded degree.

Having been to the US many times and travelled in about 30 states, I would have to say that if education shows in the general population, the standard in the US is quite low.

Many people in the US don't know Europe is composed of dozens of independent (well leaving the EU argument out of it) countries, and have never travelled outside the US.

Many are amazingly ignorant of politics and World affairs, and don't actually know where other countries are.

So I wouldn't place too much faith in US standards!

Most people in the U.K. have pretty poor general knowledge as well to be honest.

Any of you lecturers ever teach students from Ireland? Would be interested to see how they did, especially as most students study 7 or maybe 8 subjects for the Leaving Certificate compared to the 2 or 3 subjects studied in the UK for A levels.

@corythatwas I once got 100% for an essay. English lit. Had an original thought. Done feck-all original thinking since, mind.

As others have said, standards are lower in the US

Lobster - lots of British universities are also now offering Liberal Arts degrees, too, composed of a broad range of social science and arts modules, more like a US course. Nottingham and Royal Holloway Universities are two examples.

@Danglingmod

Lobster - lots of British universities are also now offering Liberal Arts degrees, too, composed of a broad range of social science and arts modules, more like a US course. Nottingham and Royal Holloway Universities are two examples.

Thank you - I'll get her to look at those too. I think she'd love to study in the UK - it's just a case of finding the right course.

Lobster - if there is any chance that your daughter may want to train as a secondary teacher in the UK, she will need to make sure that at least 50% of her degree is in the subject she wishes to teach.

A number of UK Universities seem to offer multi-subject Liberal Arts degrees now (eg Durham, UCL, Exeter and Birmingham), so she should have lots of options available

Oops - cross post!