How to reject men?

[lhmua12]

Long story short, I don’t currently have a useable car so have started to take public transport (namely trains)

Men at stations frequently approach me. I find it tedious as I’m not interested. It’s not flattering; I’d rather be left alone. I’m nothing special - these men probably target me as I travel alone to/from work. I’m not interested in men that I don’t know from Adam; particularly as these men tend to be significantly older than me, or unattractive to the extent that I would otherwise avoid them (ie lack of hygiene/sloppily dressed/guzzling alcohol at 8am.) Some are creepy and stare or follow me and shout insults after I ignore them or decline a date/exchange of details

What’s the safest way to reject men? I’m worried about them turning nasty. I tend to just say I have a boyfriend, but a man yesterday was really persistent regardless. I’m considering just getting taxis to work even though it will rinse me dry

And so did my DH. But he's had maybe one or two uncomfortable moments on trains. I've had 100s, just like OP.

I'm not denying risk for boys. I'm simply saying that there's an added risk for girls that there are so many men who seem to think it's their RIGHT to talk, engage with, invade the personal space of girls and women. And that it's relentless. Every girl and woman has had that situation where they're made to feel intimidated and when they push back they're told that they are being unfriendly blah blah blah. OP literally can't get on a train right now without men harassing her.

I don't understand why it has to become a competition, or why we have to compare with boys at all?

The OP has a problem, why the need to state that boys are less at risk? It's absolutely not true, and it has no relevance. What I am getting tired of is people pretending that women are born victims and at risk, whilst men are safe to roam around

Isn't it sad that common responses are:

"Wear an engagement style ring" and "tell them you're a lesbian".

Shouldn't the focus be on men learning to accept no for an answer? A persistent one would probably be deluded enough to think he could 'turn' the lesbian.

"I'm not interested. Leave me alone."

Agree with @SantaClaritaDiet . Why did this suddenly become about boys vs girls safety? It's so odd. Some people have a weird anti male axe to grind that they bring out at any opportunity. Many boys in the UK feel very unsafe every day on public transport due to knife crime and gangs.

ANYWAY

OP, I 100% believe this is is happening to you and I am not victim blaming but if you are getting public transport at commuter times, there must be something you are doing to connect with these men over the hundreds of women who are just getting on with their lives. Are you looking around? Making eye contact? Smiling to yourself? It's disgusting that we have to do this but put your headphones in and stop making eye contact with people.

@Wearywithteens Tell your daughter to just report next time to the rail staff or the police if someone starts following her. She doesn't have to run from carriage to carriage: we still live in a country with laws.

The problem is that often women don't feel empowered to go to the actual authorities so they are looking for white knights and have-a-go heroes to save them. She was looking around for men to step in but it's the job of the rail staff to do so. She could also have simply asked the actual police who were there and pointed out that she felt threatened. They likely would have told her to leave and just stopped the guy for 5 minutes with some questions to delay departure. She wasn't actually helpless but once you decide that you aren't ever going to engage the actual authorities for anything, then yes, you will feel powerless.

And I'm also starting to get a bit tired of people telling me that 11 year old boys and 11 year old girls are at equal risk if out by themselves

I have a 12 year old ds I am well aware he isn’t harassed like the majority of young girls start to get harassed around this age. It makes me so angry that men get away with harassing and intimidating girls and women

I used to wear a ring it helped a little. Had to say thanks but I’m with someone sometimes would get the reply I’m not asking you both out then I would simper and say but I’m happy all the while pretending to be pleasantly surprised by their attention. I hated it but was the quickest way To get rid of them

As I got older I was no longer polite but also new they would back off they don’t when you are younger And appear more vulnerable

Shouldn't the focus be on men learning to accept no for an answer?

And how exactly are you going to successfully achieve that? The OP wanted advice on how to deal with it when it happens to her. When she is in a vulnerable position, standing there thinking that the man is the problem isn't much of a solution.

I travel everywhere by train and never have this issue. I don't have to invent any imaginary husband. I just fix them with a stare (see user name).

On Saturday night just passed, I had the first unwelcome 'attention' I'd had In years. Outrageously sozzled drunken man staggering home started shouting that I was "the most beautiful thing he'd ever seen'. I stalked past him but could still hear him halfway down the street.

I put it down to the fact it was pitch black, rather than drunk. Nobody could be that drunk.

Well, I can see frustration about it turning into a girl vs boy thing. Started because I was commenting on someone's comment about how girls and women are accused of being unfriendly or told, "we were just trying to be unfriendly" and, as conversations do, it sort of went on from there! .

The thing is that I don't have much useful advice for OP, beyond what everyone has said here already, it just makes me sooooooo angry that women have to put up with this shit time and time again.

And how exactly are you going to successfully achieve that?

Of course this is a long term fix which comes from education. And I perhaps am mouthy enough to tell someone to fuck off on top of having a fairly naturally occurring RBF.

Still, I do find it immensely sad and depressing that it is 2020 and we are still (and increasingly) having to be careful to not offend the men folk. Honestly, we have regressed so much in recent years.

I appreciate it's not easy. That's what makes it all the more depressing.

I agree with being loud. It might seem counterintuitive but it puts a lot of people off and if other passengers start staring the man will likely move away. I would loudly say something like ‘no, go away’ to make it clear that you aren’t entering a conversation at all.

If you can’t do this, would it be possible to move close to other passengers? Obviously not too close but close enough that it’s clear they will hear you being harassed.

These will only work if the station is quite well populated; if not I get that it would be quite scary. Maybe earphones in or talking on the phone to deter?

Oh maybe in the time of corona a well placed hacking cough in the middle of a man trying to talk to you would also be suitable!

Josh this is awful are women seriously still having to put up with this crap??!

I haven't been on a train for years! And I'm quite old now so I don't get harassed by men anymore

But I always found a stare and a look like youve smelt shit and a loud ugh go away always worked for me

General wierdness. A man on an isolated train carriage kept staring at me from the seats opposite once and then moved to sit opposite me. I was enraged, all I had to hand was an empty crisp bag in my pocket, so I sat next to him, and started scrunching the crisp bag close to his ear, while singing quietly to myself and pretending not to be bothered. He soon moved off, muttering in a self wounded sort of way, in fact he completely left the carriage!

You're amazing, @IncandescentSilver

It's so depressing. My 18 year old step daughter was telling me about the harassment she and her friends invariably get from pathetic middle aged men. Possibly my advice to say piss off grandad, wasnt the best, but I'm so angry men are still getting away with this shit.

OP, if you are in a safe place, I'd loudly say 'go away' or 'leave me alone'. Attracting the attention of other people.

Wearywithteens

I understand! It's just that sometimes women feel like they have to do it themselves and trains have procedures just for this reason. The cost of trains is astronomical so the threat of being removed hits a lot harder than being kicked off a bus. Also the police take public order offenses much more seriously. You can be banned from train franchises altogether.

Women need to mass report instead of just putting up with things.

General wierdness. A man on an isolated train carriage kept staring at me from the seats opposite once and then moved to sit opposite me. I was enraged, all I had to hand was an empty crisp bag in my pocket, so I sat next to him, and started scrunching the crisp bag close to his ear, while singing quietly to myself and pretending not to be bothered. He soon moved off, muttering in a self wounded sort of way, in fact he completely left the carriage!

@IncandescentSilver

Honestly this is the kind of pointless shit I just wouldn't bother with. I'd loudly complain, get up and move and if he followed me, just go straight to the rail staff and explain I'm being followed and harassed or when he went to sit down initially, I'd just say, "no, there's plenty of free seats over there".

Women develop all these pointless passive aggressive strategies that make no sense. You are on a train, there are staff everywhere, there are alarms. You are no safer sitting there and rustling a packet than moving away or asking him not to sit down. If you don't want him to sit, say no. If he starts trouble, GO TO THE RAIL STAFF. I have done it multiple times. I was moved to first class once. You don't have to placate every man you meet. He's not your abusive boyfriend.

The OP is commuting in the day time on a crowded train and is being harassed. She's not on a nightbus outside of lewisham at 3am or walking down a dark street by herself. She can say no. If anyone escalates she can literally walk 10 ft to the station staff and complain.

Anyway I've never heard of people being harassed on commutes like this (most people are on their mobile phones) so I suspect the OP projects a very weak please-fuck-with-me energy. I'd correct that for your own safety, OP.

How deeply depressing that in 2020, a woman is told to wear a ring to fend off predatory behaviour.

OP, the best advice is to say '' I'm pregnant''. Nobody will want you then

Headphones in, shades on if you can - I leave voice notes to my friends or get on the phone, no one talks to me then. I just look busy, bring a book and don’t make eye contact with anyone. Short one word answers if they do force me to talk.

I’ve had lots of people start off trying to hit on me but then calling me an ugly bitch/whore/cunt when I reject them. Tbh the only thing that’s really helped is getting older. Even though I get ID’d still, I think being older has given me more presence and men don’t see me as someone they can just mess with anymore.

I remember the days of being harassed on public transport by drunk men in my 20s and 30s and the fact that other men just looked away.

Sad that things haven't changed.

Depressing but understandable to read all these suggestions.

In my experience a confident, head up posture, walk and stance, and determinedly not making any eye contact with anybody puts off most of them. Resting/active bitch face(can't find the poster to thank for that phrase but it describes it perfectly. Perfect the absolutely-furious-that-you-dared-to-disturb-me look and it's preceeding "don't fucking bother" one. Earbuds or headphones on even if they're only plugged into your pocket is another. If you end up in a conversation then short, rude, one word answer (NO is a useful word, even/ especially if it doesn't make sense to the conversation) and walk away if you were walking, or go up to literally anybody else and start up a conversation with the phrase "Hi, this man is bothering me, can I talk to you for a bit please?"

On the train sit in the aisle seat, turn your back and have your bag on the window seat if you're worried. Again, perfect the "not today fucker" aura. It will serve you well.

Lastly, learn a marital art if this worries you. Nothing will help you be more confident around stupid dumb men than knowing that you can handle them easily if they got physical.

I stare resolutely at phone with headphones in. If they get right up in your face and get you to take them out I then firmly say, "will you leave me alone please" which normally gets a "just trying to be friendly" reaction which I follow with "I'm busy doing something [gesture to phone]". They normally go, with bad grace, but they do go.

Ughhhhh I absolutely hate to admit this, but I'm also in favour of the gentle "Oh, I don't think my husband would like that!" if I feel there's any possibility of the man in question getting aggressive. (I'm not married) I fucking hate doing this but I'd rather be hitching at myself for losing my feminism badge, than wind up assaulted or dead.

If I don't feel the fella is a threat then I'm more likely to just go with headphones in, reading book/phone and just polite smile and ignore. If he ramps up, then I say loudly "I'm not interested in a conversation with you. Leave me alone."

Op I'm guessing you mainly catch the train at an unstaffed station? And perhaps an hour where other people aren't around? It shouldn't have to be this way, but I'd strongly consider using another station. I'd rather pay an extra fiver a day and get up half an hour earlier to get a bus to a station where I felt safer, because I'd then have a better day of work.

It shouldn't be this way. Women shouldn't have to consider their safety when turning down men. But the reality is, we do, so be safe.