Help - other people's screaming children; what to do?

[Bessie123]

I live in a terraced house in London. Our street is quite noisy before midnight, but I usually get up for work at around 7.00, so I can go to sleep around 12-ish, avoid the noise on the street waking me up, get 7 hours, and that is fine.

A couple of weeks ago, our neighbours told me and dp that they are swapping bedrooms with their children (2yrs old and 3 yrs old) so that the children can have a bigger room. The children's new room is on the other side of mine and dp's bedroom wall.

The swap has obviously happened because I have been woken up before 5.00am 3 times in the last week by the 2 year old screaming for his mummy. The parents now sleep in the back bedroom the other side of the house and can't hear anything (I assume they can't; our back bedroom is v quiet and quite far from our bedroom).

I haven't been able to get back to sleep after the 2 year old's screaming has woken me up. I have no children, but am expecting my first in Feb and am more tired than usual anyway at the moment. My reduced sleep from the early wake up calls is making me exhausted and it's interfering with my work.

So, my question is how to deal with this: should I say something to the parents next door (and if so, what), or just put up with it? The neighbours also have a 7 month old baby, but her crying hasn't woken me up before; I can only assume that it is the 2 year old's stronger lungs that are the problem.

All advice welcome.

I'm afraid, Bessie, that kids do pose some pretty intractable problems when it comes to neighbours.

We live in a flat. When ds was a little younger than he is now, he'd wake at 6am and start thumping around the flat. The poor woman upstairs nearly had a nervous breakdown over it, but there was nothing I could do bar physically restricting his movements .. which was impossible.

I was as stressed as she was ... but he grew up a bit, and the problem has now stopped.

Pity she moved, though ....

kitsilano - not everyone thinks it would be "outrageous, selfish and insensitive"to say something. far more people present the arguments that it would be pointless and - in light of the imminent birth - foolish. and most people have expressed sympathy for bessie.

Got to agree with Colditz. Of course everyone thinks their own child will be perfect and sleep through the night from about 2 weeks old. I certainly did.

DS was a fairly placid baby. DD on the other hand probably slept for 10% of the time and cried the 90%. My neighbour commented to me that she never heard DS but could hear DD quite a lot!

The OP's time will come

The lady who used to live next door swore bloind she can't hear ds1 and ds2- now theya re both ASD and prone to being LOUD with their noises and I know it must be noticeable as we also have an ASD unit across the road and I can hear their residents plain as day. Goodness am I grateful for her tact though- not as if I can do anything and I'd only end up feeling shitty!

This is a difficult situation, because while I am sure that the neighbours haven't deliberately swapped rooms just to keep Bessie awake, I am equally sure that Bessie has done nothing wrong, and didn't choose suddenly to have a noisy child waking her up in the early hours.

It's quite possible that the neighbour, while knowing their child wakes early, doesn't know how much it is disturbing Bessie. It could well be that the child was making justa as much noise before, in the previous bedroom, but it didn't disturb the lodger, because he sleeps much more heavily than Bessie.

I don't think that either the neighbour, or Bessie have done anything wrong here. I think maybe the best approach would be for Bessie to have a very low-key, non-confrontational chat with the neighbour, to let her know that there is a problem with noise at that time of day, but to try to find ways together to tackle the problem without causing a disagreement.

E.g. for Bessie to say "I've noticed since you've changed the bedrooms round, that one of your children often wakes early, and this is waking me up, and making me very tired. I understand that it's a difficult problem, and you may not be able to prevent her from making a noise at that time, but is there anything that could be done to reduce it, (e.g. move child's bed to other side of room, etc, etc).

I think with a non-confrontational approach, some sort of resolution could be found. So I don't think Bessie is being entirely unreasonable, however, I think suggestions such as the mum could nap while the children sleep in the day is very unrealistic with 3 children, and I think yes, being a mum is hard, but that doesn't mean other people's needs don't count either.

Hatwoman - you're right, not every one. But

"Intolerant"
"Unreasonable"
"Pregnancyzilla"
"Your problem not theirs"
"Selfish"
"missing the point"
"Don't know you're born"

And that's not even half way up the thread!

Even though you are right that speaking to them may not have any effect I don't think Bessie is all the above things for being pissed off and I think she is within her rights to mention it.

Her neighbour may be able to do something re sound proofing - eg moving cot/bed or even reassure Bessie that this is a new measure they are trying to help their child sleep longer, not the way that things always have been and will be.

Kitsilano, you're not from BC by any chance?

Bessie, I don't think that you are a terrible person (your post 17.47pm) and I don't think most people who have posted do either. I have every sympathy with your plight as someone who did not sleep well throughout pregnancy and has an almost nine year old who has never slept well. My son is on the autistic spectrum and a lot of children on the spectrum have sleeping problems. Pre-baby, I could regularly sleep until noon even without having had a late night the night before! - so, truly, I sympathise and hope you can resolve this without having to mention anything to your neighbours.

Over the years a number of mumsnetters have posted about how upset they have been when their neighbours have complained about their child's crying disrupting the neighbours sleep.

Have we found out why they leave the 2 yo to cry for 20 mins when he / she wakes up? I have tried to read the thread properly but it is so long

This has been a thread so rich with experience that I might have missed it ... but presumably bessie123 will be having her newborn in her room when he/she arrives? As is kind of usual? And it will cry a lot, and generally during/most of the night, a lot, as is kind of usual, or at least not unusual?

So ... does bessie thereby not have an opening, so to speak, to pop next door and say - Hope you don't mind me saying - but with your new arrangements with X in the room next to ours - and she seems to be fairly unsettled, especially early mornings - [Poor you, is quite a useful bit to put in here] - in Z weeks the baby will be here - just thought you might want to be sure she isn't unsettled again by that ... etc.

Of course, if they don't take the hint (& NB there is, sorry, no obligation on them to) then it's time to get on with it - white noise (great idea), earplugs, dealing with the teenagers, etc.

Fortune cookie - no but used to live there.

No franny, she hasn't talked to them about it. We also don't know how long it has been going on for, only that she has been woken up 3 times in the last week. And I don't think the baby necessarily always cries for that long, but the op can't get back to sleep after being woken and she is knackered.

Please someone correct me if I am wrong.

I had a very similar situation when we moved into our new house. My DD was tiny and, although she woke up a lot in the night she would not cry loudly.

Next door must have been in the process of some kind of sleep training and their 2/3 yo ds would SCREAM for up to an hour in the middle of the night. They also had a tiny baby.

I was distraught at a)waking me up when already sleep deprived and b) that they weren't immediately jumping up to their DS, as I was doing with PFB. Honestly, I thought they were mentally abusing him and it was awful.

It stopped after a couple of weeks, He began sleeping through, and now with lots of children myself I can entirely understand that it was just a phase and IT WON'T LAST. I am so glad that I didn't ever say anything to my neighbour. She would have looked at me with my one easy baby like this

that was my reading of it, twofalls.

Personally I wouldn't leave my child crying for 20 mins at 5 am

one of the reasons why I wouldn't do it, would be because it would disturb the neighbours

I don't think that is so terribly odd, is it?

Somuchtobats I agree with you.

There's still a lot of "well I am Mother Theresa of Calcutta because my 12 children never slept for more than 3 minutes at a time and therefore no one else is allowed to complain about anything" on this thread.

Poor Bessie is being woken up and her neighbours, whatever they are doing to cope with the problem, are not taking into account the completely separate problem of the impact on neighbours. She's being entirely reasonable in wondering if anything can be done. Probably the answer is no, nothing can be done, but the question is reasonable.

I wouldn't fancy being woken up night after night by someone else's child. I wouldn't complain because there's not much you can do about it, but to expect other, unrelated people just to absorb the problem just because you have to is unfair. The least you can do is sympathise.

Not saying you can do anything about it. Just saying the condemnation on this thread is just weird - and smug.

Bessie - is there any way you can work on getting yourself back to sleep afterwards if the disturbance is only for 15/20 mins? What time do you have to be up in the morning?

Maybe the stress/irritation of knowing you've been woken and fretting about not getting enough sleep before work are keeping you awake more than the actual disturbance. Can you work on any relaxation techniques to get you to nod off again?

i think bink's suggestion is probably the best ive heard. good way of opening the conversation.

as to whoever compared a screaming child with a dog. well, if a dog was causing too much of a disturbance you can re-home it...you may not want to, but you could.

there is not a lot you can do with a screaming child. you can do your best to remedy the situation, deal with it and prevent it happening long term..which may involve a short period of crying/disturbance. there isnt an instant cure, and a neighbour pointing it out is going to do bugger all to stop it.

unfortunately this is life, the reality of living in a semi/terraced. there is always a chance your neighbour may have a young child..and children cry.

and i still do have plenty of sympathy for bessie, so dont think otherwise

franny, how do we know they are leaving the child crying for 20 minutes though? in that 20 minutes one/both parents could be quiety talking to that child trying to calm them down?

I thought the child was screaming "Mummy"

you are right though, it is an assumption

if I was unable to prevent it happening despite my best efforts I would be being very apologetic to the neighbour

this has happened to us (bursts of very upset crying in the night which I could not stop) and I made sure I said sorry when I next saw the neighbours

people do expect to get a decent night's sleep IMO and this is a reasonable expectation (one's own children notwithstanding, of course )

I am sure someone will have already suggested this but what you need is wax ear plugs!

i have to say, im surprised i was never reported to social services because when my dd starts, she screams like im trying to kill her "mummy....mummy...noooo...noooo"...

and that's because ive refused a sweetie

of course the op is entitled to a good night's sleep. i just think mentioning it should be very delicately done (as in bink's suggestion) or not at all, quite likely to backfire.

not sleeping is awful, i did it for two years for various reasons...and i am a HUGE grouch when im tired.

Bessie, I think you are being perfectly reasonable actually, and I say this as the mother of a newish baby who has only recently learnt to sleep through the night.
That is not to say I'm not sympathetic to your neighbours too - I am, very much so, they are probably having a mare right now, but it is impacting on you in a horrid way.
People are kind of harsh forgetting how much you need your sleep when pregnant, imo. Nobody even bloody told me that at the time (yes, I am dumb, I could have read a book, whatever ).
BUT (and it's a big but)... they may not know that their 2 year old is waking you up... so if you can be diplomatic, you could bring the situation up in a tactful way. Not all guns blazing type thing.
And for what it's worth, I have apologised to my neighbour on the occasions when my baby did wake up in the night, sreaming loudly... I thought it was the decentthing to do, frankly. It's absolutely right imo that having children shouldn't mean one ignores others' needs etc.
Don't all have me on toast now please!

i think apologising is fine, but really that's all you can do when you have a screaming baby.

i apologised to my neighbour many many times about the noise from screaming dd. she said "oh fine, no problem, i never heard it"

then she moved out and told my other neighours i was from hell. they took it with a pinch of salt but it was really quite hurtful..

it did make me feel crap, because i was trying my best!

yes of course, we can't make our children be quiet all the time however much we might like to

I think we should do our best though and consider the effect on other people

if our family is affecting another person's sleep we need to recognise that and do what we can to put it right, to a reasonable extent