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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To not understand why people are still having kids?

688 replies

Tobythecat · 20/09/2020 19:21

I understand that the urge to reproduce is very strong, but the future looks incredibly bleak (I'm not talking about just covid, but also climate change). I fear for the future and what sort of quality of life people will have, considering Automation/competition over jobs, climate change issues (food/water shortages, extreme weather). Honestly, how can you think that everything will be fine and work itself out, or do you just not think about it? Children today will face unimagineable suffering in the next 20-30 years, how can you justify it to them? I wanted children desperately but decided not to because of the above, plus genetic factors.

People mention the war and how people kept having kids, but the threats we face have never been faced before and are multifaceted. Is existing to suffer better than not existing at all?

OP posts:
Mimishimi · 21/09/2020 08:31

I had kids even though I an from a minority that gets hit pretty hard with the fasces when everything hits the fan. To be honest I do worry about it

Marmitecrackers · 21/09/2020 08:31

To be honest OP if you are that anxious I would concur that you shouldn't have children as it's not fair to bring them up around heightened anxiety.

As for the rest of it the human race does need to continue...

ChelseaDaggers · 21/09/2020 08:32

Not the one I was thinking of, but this:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-15449959

It isn't just numbers; it's also wealth which is the problem. So lifestyle is a huge factor.

ChelseaDaggers · 21/09/2020 08:37

wondering how we as parents plan on explaining to our kids how we justified parenthood to ourselves

I'd be more concerned about justifying our lifestyles. Before we start removing, (by coersion, as people are doing on here), womens reproductive rights, maybe we need to take a look at how we are living.

Both are important. I'm not disputing that at all, but when people say it's just about numbers and if you have a child you're doing worse than someone driving a huge diesel car every day, taking long and short haul flights many times a year for holidays, eating a lot of red meat and dairy etc etc, is being overly simplistic.

AltheaThoon · 21/09/2020 08:39

If women chose to stop having children we'd soon find ourselves in a Gilead like state being forced to have them.

Yes the world is over populated and yes it's a problem. Good for you and your friends if you all chose not to have children in an attempt to save the planet (though I hate to tell you that you not having children won't make a blind bit of difference to that). No need to gleefully tell those of us who chose differently that our children's lives are damned.

Most people make small changes where they can in the hope of making a difference.

KeepSmiling89 · 21/09/2020 08:43

Wow, what a cheery thread to read first thing on a Monday morning OP. I think if everyone thought the same as you, the human race would be extinct in 20-30 years time. Sure, the Earth might be saved, but at what cost...?

ChelseaDaggers · 21/09/2020 08:43

*they are being

Thisbastardcomputer · 21/09/2020 08:45

Every generation has a crisis, wars, cold wars, missile crises, aids. Please calm it down, any new parent with anxiety will be distraught.

ChelseaDaggers · 21/09/2020 08:52

@KeepSmiling89

Wow, what a cheery thread to read first thing on a Monday morning OP. I think if everyone thought the same as you, the human race would be extinct in 20-30 years time. Sure, the Earth might be saved, but at what cost...?
Some people want this to happen; for the human race to die out and Gaia could return to "a beautiful paradise". Although anyone who knows much about nature knows it isn't all gorgeous, fair and beautiful. Some of it is just brutal, cruel and very unfair. But, I digress.

It's a cliche, but everyone thinks it when they hear this argument; you first then!

People who choose not to have babies, for any reason, good for you! But when you deliberately choose to come on to a parenting site and try to bully and coerce people into feeling exactly the same as you, you lose the moral high ground.

It's like me swooping in to that "thank you for not breeding" site and telling them all they're WRONG. I would never. Some people might, but those people are honestly a little unhinged. As are the people who do the reverse imo.

ChelseaDaggers · 21/09/2020 08:54

"Moral high ground" isn't quite right...I think I meant to say "you lose all credibility".

Kazakaren · 21/09/2020 08:58

Sure, the Earth might be saved, but at what cost...?

The human race. Obviously.

Bluemooninmyeyes1 · 21/09/2020 08:59

@AltheaThoon of course it makes a difference that more women now are choosing not to reproduce. If everyone thought like you and kept adding to the problem by having kids, the world would be more overpopulated and resources would be scarcer. It doesn’t take a genius to work that out.

netsybetsy · 21/09/2020 09:01

I think this could be an interesting discussion. I don't have kids (choice) so maybe less triggered, I don't know.

For my part, I have no business telling other women how many kids they should have at all and wouldn't presume to.

I imagine most parents have thought about all sorts of ramifications before they have kids. Even if they haven't, why should they when it's such a strong biological urge?

I have my own personal reasons for not believing it would be worth having kids.

I don't know if someone has stats on this but isn't it the case that disasters and war cause the birth rate to go UP rather than down?

ChelseaDaggers · 21/09/2020 09:03

I don't know if someone has stats on this but isn't it the case that disasters and war cause the birth rate to go UP rather than down?

Birth rates are higher in areas where women and children have less access to education and healthcare, so yes, this would be the case in war zones. Infant mortality is a big factor too. Mothers have more babies if there is less chance of them surviving to adulthood.

netsybetsy · 21/09/2020 09:06

@ChelseaDaggers

I don't know if someone has stats on this but isn't it the case that disasters and war cause the birth rate to go UP rather than down?

Birth rates are higher in areas where women and children have less access to education and healthcare, so yes, this would be the case in war zones. Infant mortality is a big factor too. Mothers have more babies if there is less chance of them surviving to adulthood.

That makes sense, but wasn't it also the case after the two world wars in Europe and the USA?
stoptheworldiwant2getoff · 21/09/2020 09:07

Its a bit of a cruel thing to write on a MUMS FORUM where a lot of us are about to give birth! Just go away, applaud yourself for saving the world but leave us alone you nasty piece of work!

ChelseaDaggers · 21/09/2020 09:11

The baby boom after WW2 is often attributed to parents holding off having babies during the depression and then the war.

Also the notion that soldiers coming back from war had had enough of "adventure" and wanted to settle down.

This sort of contradicts what I just said re war zones, because people had fewer babies during those wars. But the UK and the US were never really war zones. Elsewhere in Europe yes, but although this actually used to be my field, I embarrassingly don't know that the baby boom was as pronounced in the rest of Europe as it was in the UK.

ChelseaDaggers · 21/09/2020 09:12

@stoptheworldiwant2getoff

Its a bit of a cruel thing to write on a MUMS FORUM where a lot of us are about to give birth! Just go away, applaud yourself for saving the world but leave us alone you nasty piece of work!
This...yeah^^. Sums it up nicely. It'll probably get deleted, as will this because I've quoted it, but tbh, you're right.
LadyH846 · 21/09/2020 09:19

I agree OP.

However having children or not having children usually tends to be a selfish decision.

Life is a sexually transmitted disease!

redlockscelt · 21/09/2020 09:24

@GreatMindsThinkAlike

If I have children, I've decided I'll adopt. There are so many children who need a good home and then I can't be blamed for bringing them into this shitty world.
That's not a good reason to adopt a child.
ChelseaDaggers · 21/09/2020 09:26

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

AltheaThoon · 21/09/2020 09:31

[quote Bluemooninmyeyes1]@AltheaThoon of course it makes a difference that more women now are choosing not to reproduce. If everyone thought like you and kept adding to the problem by having kids, the world would be more overpopulated and resources would be scarcer. It doesn’t take a genius to work that out.[/quote]
Fair enough. Probably a stupid thing to say. However, both ideas in the extreme are damaging. If everyone was like the op and decided not to have children we'd be in complete dire straits for completely different reasons in a few years.

Choose not to have children for completely altruistic reasons? Good for you. But you have no right berating and trying to scare other for making different choices.

Original poster
Tobythecat · 21/09/2020 09:36

A lot of very defensive and agressive replies to what I thought would be an interesting discussion. I guess a lot of it is guilt, but I was hoping for a more intelligent discussion.

Those of you who mention people have always had kids even in hard times- women didn't have access to contraception like we do now and they also did not have the rights we do today- women were raped by their husbands etc.

I think today we know better and our reproductive choices should reflect that. Children today will not have the quality of life that their parents had and face a very bleak future- why am I such a terrible person to even suggest that- this is reality. I feel like a lot of you just want to live in some fantasy that your kids will solve climate change and everything will be fine in the end. Why is it the next generations responsibility to deal with the shit we left them?

As much as I wish that we could come up with a solution- I fear it will be too late- we have done so much damage to the environment I don't believe it can be reversed in our lifetime.

OP posts:
Enrico · 21/09/2020 09:36

Life is a sexually transmitted disease!

Ok, moonpig.

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