To not understand why people are still having kids?

[Tobythecat]

I understand that the urge to reproduce is very strong, but the future looks incredibly bleak (I'm not talking about just covid, but also climate change). I fear for the future and what sort of quality of life people will have, considering Automation/competition over jobs, climate change issues (food/water shortages, extreme weather). Honestly, how can you think that everything will be fine and work itself out, or do you just not think about it? Children today will face unimagineable suffering in the next 20-30 years, how can you justify it to them? I wanted children desperately but decided not to because of the above, plus genetic factors.

People mention the war and how people kept having kids, but the threats we face have never been faced before and are multifaceted. Is existing to suffer better than not existing at all?

MadameBlobby

Sounds to me you’re trying to justify what you now feel was the wrong decision to yourself.

^This.

There's a real sense of pain coming through your defensive posts OP. Perhaps try counselling to come to terms with your decision & make peace with it.

Mummynet obviously isn’t the ideal place to post though, since billions of women are still clamouring to be impregnated for some reason best known to themselves or because many of us are parents already and it's not nice to hear people saying your children shouldn't exist/you're causing them suffering by having had them.

Maybe you should choose your audience better.

What a load of crock. Unless u have some sort of crystal ball that can tell the future then ur totally out of line making such a statement at people still wanting to have children. If everyone thought like u then the world would end. Try living ur life instead of dwelling on what’s ifs.

That's hilarious OP. I have 4 kids and we are very aware of climate change. I'm hoping as we keep teaching them they will help make the planet better. Funny though as I get the same lecture from a mothr of 1 who happens to drive a 5 minute distance instead of walking, is a pilot instructor and he lr husband a pilot of domestic flights. They also go on holiday 3 times a year abroad. And yet we have never flown and do not drive and grow a lot of vegetables and cook from scratch and run our own business.... Yet I'm the one who gets a lecture 😁

The simple fact is that, worldwide, life has gotten steadily and significantly better on almost every measure over the past 200 years. Climate change is certainly a challenge, but things like the uptake of renewables are are changing fast. I remain optimistic that this trend will continue, with some hiccups.

Just because someone is suffering depression does not mean they feel their children are "mistakes". Plus it's one thing learning from other people's hardships, it's another thing to take joy from it

Urh ffs
I've already said that I don't take joy from it. I just use it to counteract the 'children are joy' narrative.

I've also said that it was another's poster who mentioned pnd. Ibe never said that women with pnd think that their children are mistakes
But, there are many posters who regret have children and wished that more people spoke up about the negatives of having children. It's a total taboo to do so, but online people are freer to say so. I dont feel bad about having come to Mumsnet to research. I wish more people like me would.

I do meet a lot of mums in real life who do complain about how hard it is, but, if you agree with them and say that's one of the many reasons you don't want kids, then change tack and say 'oh but it's all worth it!"

It's almost like it ISN'T worth it, but they don't want you knowing they've made the wrong choice...

And recycle obviously. We also buy second hand clothes but they are always in designer clothes probably made in a sweat shop

Children today will face unimagineable suffering in the next 20-30 years, how can you justify it to them?

Justify what exactly? Giving them life?
I tend not to fill my kids head with the doom and gloom you wanna push OP, she dont see the world as fucked or pointless.
I dont believe in 20 to 30 years we are fucked.

Cancer runs in my family, dont mean im gunna go off myself tomorrow or wish dd was never born cos of it, shit, cancer will get me before climate even makes a dent in my life

Seems your trying to justify YOUR life choices by putting others down for theirs

Oh and BTW OP, I didnt know i was pregnant till 27 weeks, whats your solution for that? Late term abortion of a healthy fetus?

I understand your viewpoint but we're "hardwired" to reproduce. So as to ensure the survival of our species but it sucks for the planet. I fear for our future but I don't see any acceptable means of preventing reproduction. It's a personal choice; hopefully an informed one.

Maybe one of my DS are the answer to saving the worlds problems.

I'm a mother of two, btw. I'd love to have grandchildren one day but worry about their future.

I've already said that I don't take joy from it. I just use it to counteract the 'children are joy' narrative. Well you've done a good job of sounding like you do. Especially with the grinning faces. Honestly it looks like you're rubbingyour hands with glee at the mere suggestion that some women may be unhappy with their reproductive choices.

Honestly it looks like you're rubbingyour hands with glee at the mere suggestion that some women may be unhappy with their reproductive choices

I have no sympathy for the ones who think they've made mistakes but try to persuade others to make the same ones.

I guess I agree with the OP, I hope I am wrong and that things don't turn out so badly after all but most climate scientists believe that we are already pretty fucked and if it isn't the climate it will be another pandemic (covid19 isn't even the big one we have been expecting) not to mention the effects of increasing automation with no effort to create an economic model that supports those who will lose out.

It doesn't matter how we slice it the current human population is unsustainable. We cannot give the global population what any of us would consider a basic standard of living without destroying the planet. Most people here would not want to give up what they have or see their children's to bring our quality of life brough down so those in the developing world can come up. People in poverty and in developing countries thoughout the world are working towards a similer standard of living that we have now and don't see why they should have to lose out because the west now says it's bad for the enviroment and you can see why they feel that way.

For example, the inuit who hunt polar bears high powered rifles killing many more bears a year then their ancestors did with spears. When they are asked not to kills so many they point out that polar bears face extinction by the end of this century due to global warming cause by us.

What jobs and quality of life is available to the children of today when they grow up will likely be bitterly competitive so you best be sure you have the resources to give them every chance in life to compete.

Perhaps it won't be so bad and we will in the next 10 - 20 years have a radical rethink and restructure of society but I don't see it.

You take comfort in other people suffering? Wow how lovely. Your right with an attitude like that it's just as well you don't have children.

The world is ultimately going to end albeit a long time from now when the sun eventually burns out or the universe expands to a certain level.

Humans may well be extinct before that anyway.

So it's all kind of pointless really.

But we need to fill in our time and give our lives purpose in the meantime. For most, that means procreation. It's a very strong instinct.

In the shorter term, remember children were brought into the world during World War 2 which started only about 20 years after World War 1.

My mother was born during World War 2. If her parents had not had hope, I may not have been here to post this to you OP and what a tragedy that would have been

Why the name change 🤪

I agree OP. My DC are teens now but if I was starting from now I really think I would be having second thoughts about having children. The people mocking you and brushing you off as hysterical are part of the problem. It will never happen brigade - It already is. Over a million species on our planet WILL be extinct in the coming years through mankinds own doing. It utterly depressing.

Oh for goodness sake! People have been worrying about the world they are bringing their children into probably since the beginning of time - but they still do it. Life is for living, and I believe in trying to enjoy as much of my time here as I can. I didn't have children (by choice), but not for the reason the OP mentions, and I think it would be a very sad and depressing world indeed if people decided to stop procreating.

People mention the war and how people kept having kids, but the threats we face have never been faced before and are multifaceted. Is existing to suffer better than not existing at all? This is sheer nonsense - there are always new challenges to face, and humankind adapts and flourishes. Do you really think that bringing up children in a war was a picnic? Do you think in was fun for the children? I would also like to know what this unimaginable suffering is which we are going to suffer in the next 20-30 years, do you have a crystal ball OP? As for existing to suffer - words fail me.

I live in an earthquake prone country, and we are overdue for a 'big one'. I suppose we could all pack up and move to the other side of the world, or maybe stop having children, just in case - but we don't. We simply carry on and take each day as it comes. It's what people have always done and hopefully will do for many more years. I suggest you get out there OP and try to find some joy in life - and spend less time obsessing over something which might, and equally might not, happen.

This thread is fascinating to me because I live on the west coast of the US which has literally been on fire for weeks. We haven't been able to safely go outside for days at a time. There have been occasions where it has been dark all day because the smoke is so thick that sunlight doesn't properly filter through. The air quality metrics have been off the charts - as in, the charts go up to 500 as the worst case scenario, but readings have been in the 700s. I can't express how upsetting and strange it feels - and I am a lucky person that lives in a city and don't need to evacuate my house or fear that it will burn down.

To see so many people asking OP what they are afraid of, or saying that climate change has been talked about for years but isn't any closer than it ever was... I can't really believe it. Climate change is real. It is affecting many, many countries globally, INCLUDING in the west. The west is not immune.

By all means, people should be glad they had children and defend their choices, but please don't ignore the reality of what is happening right now, in front of your eyes. To quote Greta Thunberg, your house is on fire. This is really happening, right now.

noodlezoodle

Think it’s Trump you need to convince! (Sorry to see what is going on in the west coast of the US and hope you all come through it)

Think there does need to be a limit on number of children. Most climate problems caused by trying to feed and kept warm and transport such vast numbers of us. The poster saying it’s fine she has had 4 (4!) children is ok because they recycle 🙄 ignorance astounding. It’s happening now we do need to act decisively.

@StoneofDestiny I try my hardest to convince myself that Trump isn't real, but sadly there he is, every bloody day. Keep your fingers crossed for us that it's not for much longer!

I try my hardest to convince myself that Trump isn't real, but sadly there he is

I bet you do! Sadly we’ve got our own idiotic Boris Johnson who models his leadership ‘style’ on Trump. Our world deserves better.

@StoneofDestiny I'm English and grew up in a constituency not a million miles away from our dear PM's seat. It's the worst of both worlds! How did we get here?!