To not understand why people are still having kids?

[Tobythecat]

I understand that the urge to reproduce is very strong, but the future looks incredibly bleak (I'm not talking about just covid, but also climate change). I fear for the future and what sort of quality of life people will have, considering Automation/competition over jobs, climate change issues (food/water shortages, extreme weather). Honestly, how can you think that everything will be fine and work itself out, or do you just not think about it? Children today will face unimagineable suffering in the next 20-30 years, how can you justify it to them? I wanted children desperately but decided not to because of the above, plus genetic factors.

People mention the war and how people kept having kids, but the threats we face have never been faced before and are multifaceted. Is existing to suffer better than not existing at all?

Yanbu Op

Been wondering this myself

@TikkaBoo

that’s awful for you (no sarcasm intended)

My friends who are parents have a worse time in my view, watching the suffering their kids go through in a world that THEY forced them into.

not all children alive at present are suffering

@Bunkumum that’s what I said plus it’ll be worse for us as we’ll be too old to run away from the unimaginable suffering bringers!

@TikkaBoo

So not everyone has children because they need to feel that there is a point or usefulness to them.

No - I get that. There are people who squeeze every drop of joy out of life and always see the good in things. They're exactly the kind of people who make great parents and who should fill the world with kids.

Most people though? Nah. Just get through life as best you can and don't drag anyone else into it!

Yet all parents have kids because they need a purpose and to fill a void ... seems you have some contrasting views

Thank you @ReeseWitherfork :)

I agree. I'd never have them now. Mine are 20 and 18 and I fear enough for their futures there was plenty of suffering and corruption happening 20 years ago.

And if ever I feel shit about the world I take a walk, observe our beautiful nature or give my cat a cuddle and it instantly boosts my mood.

I think Tikka is also asking an age old, philosophical question; what is the meaning of life? What is the point in life? Religions were invented because nobody really knows the answer to that one!

It strikes me that these questions are never new, despite what people seem to think. I've already mentioned antinatalism and its roots in the ancient world.

Also, the whole "unimaginable suffering" thing...doesn't this remind people of old school religious rhetoric? If you don't stick to these exact rules, there will be unimaginable suffering? It's interesting to me.

I also don't believe it's accurate to say that there will be this level of suffering across the board, in as little as twenty years. I only see these remarks from unqualified people on internet forums and SM. Oh, and the odd pop scientist who nobody else in the scientific community agrees with.

Children today will face unimagineable suffering in the next 20-30 years, how can you justify it to them?

And all the children born for thousands if not millions of years previously haven't suffered? War famine disease droughts floods genocide more war more disease even apocalyptic plagues of sodding locusts aren't exactly unheard of, especially in the huge part of the world that isn't the pampered West. And yet humankind has kept going and found ways to live, even thrive. Don't write us off yet OP, a child born now may yet find a way to save the world from environmental disaster.

Crikey, what suffering?

There is PLENTY of suffering. We have a mental health crisis in adolescents and young people. Suicide rates are being hidden at them moment, because they're likely off the charts amounts above the usual 18 per day.

Suffering is rife.

@FlumpetCrumpet

Because it is within the power of all of us to meet the challenges we face and make the future better and that includes those yet to be born. Giving up and resigning yourself to fate isn't the only option.

^ this

Yes, we do face some huge and unprecedented challenges as a species at the moment, and yes a lot of stuff is extremely fucked up, but at the same time pretty much every generation has thought they were living through end times. My baby boomer parents grew up with the shadow of nuclear war over the first 30 years of their lives.

And also, this is a fucking horrible way to start a thread. Fuck off with your catastrophising on a forum for parents.

@flameprincess congratulations, your child definitely isn’t doomed to a life of misery, the happiness you’ll feel as soon as you hold him/her will affirm that for you. Hang in there

My friends who are parents have a worse time in my view, watching the suffering their kids go through in a world that THEY forced them into.

Was there no gluten-free pasta left in Waitrose?

Covid has all made us feel a bit shit the uncertainty and the realisation that the world can change very quick. I think a lot of us feel depressed right now.

Yet all parents have kids because they need a purpose and to fill a void ... seems you have some contrasting views

No - I don't think that the joy squeezers have a void. They genuinely want to share the joy.

It's the ones who find life a struggle, and have children to try and make their own lives better....them I neither understand nor respect.

If you find life a struggle, make your way through it as best you can, but do not force others into it.

Adopt if you life the company of children.

Unbelievable, I need say no more.

Really fucking horrible thread.

www.bbc.com/future/article/20190111-seven-reasons-why-the-world-is-improving

*Small reminder that if you are pregnant now or TTC or have kids (or anything else!) you do not need to feel guilty. You can only do your best and do as much as you can to remain positive - teach your kids about the dangers of climate change, while also enjoying the precious moments you have with them. Education is important.

Good luck and happy health to anyone in this situation, don't let this thread wear you down with negativity *

I know exactly what you mean. I said the other day thatI’m so glad I’m closer to the end of my life than the beginning. My friends who have grandchildren really fear for their future.

Was there no gluten-free pasta left in Waitrose?

A lot of my friends have depressed children.

@PumpkinsandAutumnLeaves

Really fucking horrible thread.

Is it? Or are you just upset someone has made you ponder about more than what you'll have for breakfast tomorrow?

I think people who think the future looks the bleakest it ever has for children don't have much of a handle on history. There have been far, far, far worse periods to live in, the only thing that's different to now is that when we reflect on the past we know what then happens, that things do change and invariably get better. Climate change is a big one, but we live differently now to how we did decades ago, there's nothing to suggest that we cannot make changes and live differently going forward. Automation doesn't mean the end of all jobs, society will require more people to design, build and programme machines, training will probably be made more accessible, and although there's nothing wrong with working in a warehouse for example; having the chance to work on cutting each technology is likely going to be more lucrative and interesting. The type of jobs we have has changed throughout history anyway, our economy as we have seen through covid is very dependent on people buying stuff they don't need, and on service based industries, this will likely change in the future, and nothing wrong with that. If the world does go up in a fiery ball of flames (which it will one day regardless as the sun will explode eventually as all stars do), then children have still had a chance of life. It's important to take a day at a time, tomorrow is never guaranteed anyway.