If you have no parental help, how do you cope with children?

[afternoonitsraining]

Husband and I are thinking about TTC, but we are both careful people and want to work out finances and things before trying.

Everyone we know seems to rely on their parents for childcare help, and help to buy baby things. We would have none of that due to various issues, we would have to do everything ourselves.

I know it may seem as if counting chickens before they've hatched - maybe we can't conceive anyway. But Childcare is around £60 a day in our area and with no parental help, I just wondered how people who don't earn mega salaries manage with childcare. We wouldn't get universal credit or anything, just child benefit and I would not want to give up working.

But santa you are making it sound as if grandparents are needed to have a family. They are not.

There are other options. A SAHP is one. Childcare is another - after school clubs or childminders. But for most parents it’s flexible working.

But that's the point, for most parents, there's no such thing as "flexible working". Either you work full time (business hours and more) or you don't.

After-school clubs start too late and finish much earlier than most people working days, and if you add the commute, they're not an option, or not enough. It's not that easy to find child-minders who fit exactly around your work day.

Even if the family help goes no further than taking the kids a couple of weeks a year, it still is help.

Again, apart from a few who can afford nannies and a lot of help (nothing wrong with that), I don't know anyone who could manage.

The problem is, even if you are ready to pay, sometimes there is just nothing. If I didn't have someone to take my kids during some holidays, the best I could find would be a club finishing at 4pm. Absolutely no use to me. No childminder has availability for holiday only.
It's all very good to say : just take annual leave, not everyone has enough leave, not everyone has exclusivity of school holidays to book their leaves because your colleagues have exactly the same problem. So what then? You get friends, the SAH ones...

@underthewestway

I was under the impression the maximum top up by the government was £500 a quarter

Oh, and (in Germany, or at least our city) if you have two children in childcare at the same time, you only pay for the youngest/most expensive, the rest go for about €150 a month if they are at the same daycare that's applied automatically, if they go to different ones you can claim it back off the city government.

Of course it’s possible. We work as a team. We have one in school and one at nursery. I start work early and DH gets them ready and drops them off at school/nursery before work, and then he works late so I pick them up and do evening tasks. The nursery is open till 6pm so the eldest child stays in after school clubs til 5:30. I work 4 days a week and DH has a day off in the week but works Saturdays so we have 3 days of nursery and after school costs which is do-able. But it’s hard and a constant juggle and if they’re ill it all falls apart a bit. I tend to take time off as I am freelance/work from home so it’s easier to juggle my hours.

Childminders are generally a bit cheaper than nurseries if you’re looking to save more money.

We won't be getting any help. We found most nurseries to be around £40 just for the morning but have since found a really lovely one for £29, it just means a bit more of a journey. I'd also look at childminders who are often cheaper with a more homely feel. If we hadn't found this nursery I probably would have given up work as I refuse to work for £2 a morning.
Other options are compressed days, both doing a 4 day week, or evening and weekend work.
I have been gifted loads of second hand clothes from friends and family but it's also worth looking on ebay. We only bought a car seat and Moses basket new, everything else was second hand but looked new.
I think the early years are expensive but as has been said it's a bit easier when they start school.

Could each of you work condensed hours so four days a week each then you would only have to pay for childcare 3 days a week. I had no help and mine went to nursery from 9 months old.

[quote ivfbeenbusy]@underthewestway

I was under the impression the maximum top up by the government was £500 a quarter [/quote]
Yes, you’re quite right! The max top-up is £167 per month. In my haste to correct everyone else I have just added to the confusion. The max you can get back is £2000 per year, split into £500 every 3 months. So if your bill is more than £835, the rest isn’t ‘tax-free’.

No parents or close family with at least a 2hr drive.
When I go back to work soon it will be nursery 4 days a week at a staggering £1450 a month. But it’ll be worth it not to drop my career at a crucial point. DH will be doing most drop off and pick ups as WFH, I’ll be doing compressed days to give him a day with me a week. We’ll manage I hope!

"I don't know any family at all with 2 full time-working parents and no family help, none"

I am good friends with a couple with children who both work full time and have no family help. Their oldest goes to school and after school club, their youngest goes to nursery (the same one we use which is open 8am-6.30pm, our DC never do the full day but it is good to have the option to drop off early or pick up late if needed). They don't have long commutes, which helps. And I think they both work evenings and weekends when work is busy, too.

Obviously lockdown was really tough for them when school and nursery were closed (as it was for all of us) but that's not the norm thankfully!

I don't know any family at all with 2 full time-working parents and no family help, none

really? I my experience it is pretty much the norm that 2 parents work FT even without parental help. How do most families pay the bills otherwise? I went part time (no family help) but was pretty much the exception among my circle of friends. many are expats with families abroad so no help.

No parental help at all (I'm NC with mine and have been since before my children were born, PILs live abroad mostly and are useless anyway).

We have three children aged 5 and under. We both went reduced hours at work so I work three days and DH works four, there are two days a week when the children need to go to childcare as we both work on those days. We bring home about 60k between us.

It's fine, we manage. We can't afford holidays abroad but other than that we do fine. Two of the kids share a bedroom but we have two cars and pets and stuff, we are pretty comfortable.

I can't really see how help from parents is necessary to be honest...

really? I my experience it is pretty much the norm that 2 parents work FT even without parental help.

not in mine. At best one of the parents goes part-time.

When you add transport and childcare, a 2nd salary makes so little difference that it's hardly worth the stress anyway.

I am not pretending that no-one works, I was originally replying to a poster stating that everybody keeps working full time with no help. Some might, but I don't know anyone who could. People need family help, or at least 1 parent goes part-time (or stopped working).

Even parent working term-time only rely on family to babysit a sick child because they cannot take time off during the term.

Sickness excepted, there should be full-time childcare available during school holiday too, and flexible working should become the norm when possible.

One of the positive of the pandemic is that businesses have finally realised workers can work just as well if not better from home - that will be a life-save for parents. Remove the commuting time and school children will become completely manageable.

mistermagpie
We both went reduced hours at work so I work three days and DH works four, there are two days a week when the children need to go to childcare as we both work on those days. We bring home about 60k between us.

I can't really see how help from parents is necessary to be honest...
You ^REALLY* can't see what a privilege position you are in, can you? You both went part-time, good for you. You think everybody else has this choice?

It's just so easy to bring 60k with 2 part-times is it...

Sorry if it came across that I don't see how privileged we are, that certainly isn't the case. I'm well aware that we are very lucky. But there's no need to be so snippy.

Also, we don't both actually work 'part time' as such. DH does full time hours across four days.

I know lots of parents who both work and don't rely on grandparents for childcare or providing gifts. They just work out financially what works for them, if their budget only permits one lot of childcare, they only have one child.

If you can't afford nursery fees, then sadly, that would put you in a position of not having any children.

Some use after school clubs and breakfast clubs so that helps them out and it's not massively expensive once older.

@mistermagpie

Sorry if it came across that I don't see how privileged we are, that certainly isn't the case. I'm well aware that we are very lucky. But there's no need to be so snippy.

I am not snippy. The whole point was that I wrote it was very rare (and nearly impossible in many cases) for parents to both keep working full time without family help.

You laughed at the idea of family help but admitted going part-time, and your husband being privileged enough to have flexible hours. My point exactly.

@Bourbonbiccy

I know lots of parents who both work and don't rely on grandparents for childcare or providing gifts. They just work out financially what works for them, if their budget only permits one lot of childcare, they only have one child.

If you can't afford nursery fees, then sadly, that would put you in a position of not having any children.

Some use after school clubs and breakfast clubs so that helps them out and it's not massively expensive once older.

This is virtually everyone I know who has a child. To be honest, one of the things I find mystifying on Mn is the assumption that people generally remain in the vicinity of their parents in adulthood. Even considering grandparental childcare hasn’t been a possibility for anyone I know, because most live nowhere near their parents, often not even in the same country.

I didn't laugh at anything?

I get that you are jealous of my situation and I agree it's enviable. I'm very lucky in lots of ways and agree that not everyone is as lucky to have good employers.

But I also have literally no relatives at all in my life (for reasons which I won't go into, but suffice it to say that they don't involve me being privileged) and my DH's family all live abroad. Everyone has their problems.

Well....I took a years maternity (with both) saved for prior, we had a childminder who was great (8-6 hrs if needed). I decided to retrain before pregnancy to something that allowed for a family (I was in a role that barely had me around enough to conceive before that). The retraining period gave flex (I could study towards professional quals evenings and weekends). And frankly we cut our cloth, second hand everything (bar matresses), breast fed, washable nappies via grant from council. I walked and cycled every where and went to free church playgroups. We ate cheaply (both of us can cook from scratch) and holidayed in a tent in UK. Setting me up and keeping my in a career has paid off many times over. When/if your child care costs initially wipe out all your salary, you must remember the long game. When kids are in primary you will still have a well paid job with options for promotion. Stop working for 5-7 years and it will be very hard to get back to that place.

No parental help. We both work full time. When first DC was in nursery it cost one whole salary. We are about to have DC number 2 and will have the same again with nursery fees swallowing up the equivalent of one salary. It makes better long term sense for us both to keep working (pensions, career etc).

It's hard as there is no 'back up' if you are ill/ knackered or childcare falls through.

I worked loads on my 20s and saved lots. The right job came up for at age 30 which could be done part time. Previous job that would not have been possible.

Took max ( 1 year) mat leave, then timed 2nd baby 2.5years later. This meant I took another year of mat leave in which I would have been paying for nursery for 2yo. By the time I returned to work after 2nd mat leave, first child qualified for the 30 funded hours so still only paid 1 lot of nursery fees as the hours covered my then part time hours.

We now pay £60 week for oldest child now in school at childminder for wraparound care.

Although you don't need grandparents then can be a huge practical/ fianicial help.

If you desperately want to have children then I hope you are blessed with them. You'll somehow manage, but you won't be as rich as you would be if you remain childless.

My parents don't do childcare and partners parents have passed away so we use a childminder which is considerably cheaper than a nursery. She has a huge waiting list might be worth making local enquiries I booked her when I was 3 months pregnant and paid my deposit.

We access the tax free childcare to save 20% of our childminders bill that's a great help

I work Tuesday to Friday 30hrs
dP works compressed hours 37 hrs between wed- sat and so Sunday is our family day and we have no childcare sat/sun/mon/tues

We pay childcare 3 days a week all day for the 1 year old and wrap-around for my nearly 5 year old then we pay the same amount into tax free childcare each month and use the childminder 1-2 day a week in school holidays or we book annual leave between us (lucky as I get 35 days NHS and partner gets the same and we can both "buy an extra week")

It's tight but do-able and the big childcare bills are only until they are 3 and you get 30hrs a week help!!!

My childminder is £30 a day instead of nursery at £45-50 and a lovely home from home environment.

We sell everything on eBay when we're done with it and buy secondhand and just shop around for things in sales and I buy on eBay myself and use the money in PayPal when I've sold stuff 😊

Also my daughter was 3 before I had my son if you're thinking of another after baby number one a 3 year age gap massively reduces the childcare bill.

We food shop at Aldi and meal plan all week and never buy work lunches pack ups only

With afew adjustments it's do-able
I hope you're lucky soon TTC
X

I work part time term time only. My husband works full time term time. Have always paid for childcare.
To be honest if you want a child and need to work you have to be prepared to pay for childcare. Even if you can use grandparents they may get ill or something and no longer be able to help. Or the current situation in the north east where households can't mix but you're still expected at work. You can't always rely on free childcare.