To think that the current traffic restrictions are fucking ridiculous

[Gobelinoisawitchescat]

I live in SE London - and since these sodding barriers have gone up all over the place the roads are just completely blocked with traffic.

While I know someone is going to come on talking about climate change etc - am not sure how directing all the traffic to one location makes a damn bit of difference - the cars are still on the roads, they’re just concentrated in certain ones.

Am I missing something?

@se22mother

Also affected by the gridlock in SE London. No way am I cycling on these streets and we need to get to locations that are too far to walk

That's why they're doing the LTNs, to make the streets nicer to cycle on though.

Yes countless white vans in the rush hour

An easier way would be to stop with the huge developments everywhere so there is less traffic and more greenery so people can finally breathe.

That's why they're doing the LTNs, to make the streets nicer to cycle on though

But at some point your journey will take you out onto the now overly busy road.

I live along side the LTNs in one of the boroughs mentioned above (that apparently every thinks is marvellous - rolls eyes..) it actually doesn’t impact me personally as I WFH, walk my kids to school and tend to use public transport for everything else locally although I do own a car.

My observations on how it’s impacted my area is that all the main roads are gridlocked between 8-9.15am and 3.15-6pm which impacts the buses, that just get stuck. Outside the LTN which are very pleasant to cycle on, you are taking you life in your hands by cycling - we need to be much more aggressive if we really want to change peoples habits.

As an aside, in my area if you leave your bike outside your house, the supermarket, in a bike park by the station, chances are it won’t be there when you get back. It’s a huge issue and one of the reasons that I won’t leave my bike - the council and police refuse to deal with it even when there is cctv evidence.

I'm glad the car is no longer allowed to dominate our streets

Completely agree OP. One small stretch of road in the centre of my small city has been blocked off, which means that all the traffic that would normally go through town now has to use the ring road around the city - an extremely busy road that was congested to start with. It's a bloody nightmare and the only saving grace currently is that a lot of people who would normally be going to work are still WFH.

The reasoning behind the closure is fucking stupid anyway - it's supposedly 'to facilitate social distancing', yet there are no queues of people waiting to get into those particular businesses (a Starbucks, a Turkish restaurant, a Cote brasserie, an estate agent, two charity shops, a card shop and a flower shop). Everyone is furious and our local councillor is trying desperately to get the road reopened.

Yet another example of stupid, nonsensical rules that were hurriedly adopted and are now impossible to overturn!

If the traffic is so bad would you not consider another mode of transport?

@Macncheeseballs such as? I’ve already stated about ten times that I use the car once or twice a week.
Dh cycles to work (this is new - bit it’s not as if he was driving into central London before - just an alternative to the train).
I generally use the car either for doing the weekly shop or getting in laws weekly shop and dropping it to them.
Dh maybe uses his car for going to play football (about 12 miles away in the middle of nowhere). So what is this alternative you suggest?

Shopping habits are changing, many people now do bits and pieces of shopping through the week, rather than one weekly shop, and even then, a weekly shop can be delivered. Baskets on bikes can also carry alot of shopping.

@Macncheeseballs

I'm glad the car is no longer allowed to dominate our streets

But allowed to dominate other people's streets and reduce their quality of life. What a great result and something to be very glad about.

I find it consistently amazing that people can not comprehend that others live differently to them.

“Shop little and often using your bike”. Those on low incomes struggle with this as it’s a more expensive way to shop

“Get a delivery instead” again - not always an option for low income families - it’s costs about £6 for delivery and there’s a minimum spend. Also value supermarkets don’t offer delivery.

“Don’t use your car for work” not everyone works in an office during normal hours. How about YOU cycle at 4am.

“Our street is lovely now there’s no traffic” - yeah how’s the one next to you where the traffic is being diverted to?

There are far better ways to incentivise people not to use cars - this really isn’t one of them.

There really aren't better ways to reduce car use at the moment, other than making it prohibitively expensive. But that's just as divisive along weath/socioeconomic lines. The other really important factor is that traffic will reduce. The new schemes are still in the very early stages, and behaviour change takes time.

Eventually, people do avoid non essential car journeys, and there is a modal shift after a period of time. Essential car journeys actually get quicker. Emergency response times go down. I posted the links to the data earlier.

Everyone agrees that some car journeys are necessary. But most car journeys in London are short and non-essential. Again, a PP has posted to the data for this. It's these car journeys that disappear, leading to less congestion and pollution.

There is years of data about traffic evaporation. There's loads of research about LTNs. This phase where there's strong and outspoken opposition because something has changed is a predictable part of any infrastructure change. Any change needs time to bed in.

It's really important to send your feedback to your council, so that schemes can be adjusted and changed where needed. One junction near me has already been tweaked to improve the LTN and the impact on the boundary roads.

Baskets on bikes can also carry alot of shopping.

No they can't! The basket on my bike is tiny. I could get my handbag and a pint of milk in it, not much more.

londonlivingstreets.com/2019/07/11/evaporating-traffic-impact-of-low-traffic-neighbourhoods-on-main-roads/

This is pretty long, but links to the sources for the research on the impact of LTNs. It has a section on main roads and bus journey times.

For a family? I don’t think so. How is my MIL supposed to get on a bloody bike and pedal to the doctors or hospital?

For those who want to shop with a bike, our neighbour has a babboe, he has the dog version, but they can easily hold a full shop, you can also get harnesses etc to transport children and babies.

I have borrowed his a few times and it was great, his is one of the larger models but you can get slightly smaller ones.

Potentially walkable trips are defined as shorter than 2km; made between 6am and 8pm; made without a heavy or bulky load; made by someone aged 5 to 74 without a disability; and exclude trips made by van, dial-a-ride, plane and boat.

When people research the impacts and outcomes, they do take factors like shopping, toddlers, people with low mobility etc into consideration. Walkable journeys are the target for behaviour change. When these journeys are made other than by car, essential car journeys get easier.

@SerenityNowwwww

For a family? I don’t think so. How is my MIL supposed to get on a bloody bike and pedal to the doctors or hospital?

She might enjoy a trip with PedalMe. Mine did. But this isn't the target type of journey for LTN behaviour change.

I kind of think we need to let it play out a bit longer to see the impacts. At the moment it is massively congested on the main roads (not least when eg a water main bursts and shuts one of them) but some of those journeys must be non-essential. And people will get sick of sitting in the traffic and find another way, leaving more space for the essential journeys.

I have seen health visitors saying that they can’t make as many visits as they are sitting in traffic. But look at Call the Midwife - once upon a time they went around on bikes anyway. Sure, not ALL of them could due to health issues/not being able to ride but some might really welcome the opportunity if they had proper bikes/trikes with room for their equipment.

Necessity is the mother of invention, right? I know I make some non-essential journeys in my car simply because it is easier. If they were more difficult I would find another way.

@SimonJT they cost near on £2k!

She is late 70s, has arthritis from the feet up and asthma, so I think not. My mum had arthritis, lung problems and heart problems too. And only part of one kidney working.

@SerenityNowwwww

She is late 70s, has arthritis from the feet up and asthma, so I think not. My mum had arthritis, lung problems and heart problems too. And only part of one kidney working.

They do hospital transport. Including post-operative transport as far as I know. It's not for everyone, but some patients really enjoy the different experience.

Not for checkups though?

Cars are pretty expensive to run especially if you only use it twice a week. I know people love their cars, but sometimes we just gave to adapt as the world changes. Cities are the perfect place to live without a car for the able bodied.