To tell my friend her flakiness/lack of flexibility is an issue?

[KatDubs261]

My best friend for 15 years - generally very extroverted but has undergone a bit of a personality change since lockdown. Not vulnerable, in her mid 20s and not in contact with anyone who is vulnerable. But has taken staying indoors to extremes.

Even since it has been allowed she has not met anyone in a cafe, bar or restaurant. Since breaking up with my ex last year I live alone & suggested she come for dinner - she said 'sorry I am still only comfortable going for walks.' I have seen her once since March and then she wanted to meet in a local park on Monday evening. In the end I was suffering badly with endo and couldn't, but I dont just want to meet my friend in a park on weekday evenings!?

Secondly, there was a weekend we were supposed to meet where she flat out forgot the plans. So I was stuck with zero plans that day. On Tuesday she said she would be in touch about seeing me at the weekend, but not heard from her.

I basically just feel that now she lives with her bf, she has a default plan. I don't - if I don't make plans in advance I could see no one all weekend. The last 2 weekends I've met friends in spacious safe outdoor bars. I frankly don't want to always have to go for a walk to see her and I dont want to be cancelled on either.

What can I say to her?

*If I am struggling with depression and cancel on people again and again I either need to

1. admit to my friend I am struggling or
2. stop making plans for a while

Putting time aside for a friend who keeps letting me down is affecting my mental health*

But it's not that easy OP. She may well be desperate to see you and have every intention of doing so but anxiety is crippling. You also have no idea when or how hard it's going to hit.

I'm suffering horribly at the moment and my two supposed best friends have pretty much ditched me because I'm not doing what they want. All I've had is patronising texts about how I shouldn't believe everything I see on the news. They're not listening to anything I say and are making me out to be irrational. It took me months to open up and admit how I'm feeling and this is their reaction. It's made me realise our friendship isn't what I thought it was and I can't trust them to be there as I have been for them.

I'd love to see people. I've had intentions too many times but when it comes to it I physically can't do it. The panic attacks that hit are the scariest things I've ever experienced. So, I'm taking things a day at a time and can't make plans in advance no matter how much I want to because I realised the pressure of the plans and the expectations of others was making it worse.

Your friend could be the same. She may well be ashamed/afraid to admit how she's feeling. She may not want to vocalise because that makes it real. She could very well really want to see you, which is why she suggests meeting but then when it comes to it she just can't and the shame/fear becomes a barrier to contact.

ILoveYou3000 I'm sorry you are dealing with that and I'm not sure if you are doing the same as OP's friend but if OP's friend knows she has the best of intentions but somehow fails to follow through then she needs to tell OP that rather than making plans and then flaming without explanation.

OP I think you’re over reliant on this single friendship, and is sounds like your engagement with her is a bit passive aggressive. She doesn’t need you for company (bf as default) but no doubt feels guilted by your “let’s not meet up, you’re too busy” kind of comments. It sounds like she also has lots of potential other plans, so having one not happen isn’t a big deal.

If someone messages you and suggests doing something at the weekend, why on earth are you leaving the whole weekend free?!!! That is on you, not her! I’m quite sociable at the weekend and would typically over Friday/sat/sun have maybe 4-8 separate plans (call with friend abroad, sat drinks, family call, date, brunch with other friend, drink with other friend, call with other friend)—if someone suggests doing something that weekend, timetable it then and there, assign her a slot (e.g.sat evening) and book the rest of your time!!! Being flaky isn’t great but plans change, it’s not her fault that you’re relying on her for all your company.

It’s also likely pushing her away—like constantly having a guilting, passive aggressive presence in the background who is never getting enough from her. She doesn’t owe you anything, she wants to have a nice time not feel like she is all of your plans. If you’re bored (I think you said you’re single?) then going on dates is a gray way to meet people, even if you don’t end up dating.

I am also sorry to hear that @ILoveYou3000. I don't have much time for people telling you not to believe the news and so on - no one can or should deny we are living through a similar situation.

Well good and bad news. Good news - I met 2 friends in the park this afternoon and my mental health is better for it. It has give me a real lift.

Bad news - my friend never got in touch at all. I think this is bad form. I am not going to try and make plans with her anymore or try and imagine what is going on. If she's having a hard time I expect she will tell me eventually.

But next time she asks to make a plan I'll certainly say I'll need a day and time so I can make other plans.

Being flaky isn’t great but plans change, it’s not her fault that you’re relying on her for all your company.

Being flaky is the friend's fault.

@12309845653ghydrvj I've got no interest in dating at the moment. I want to see people that I know, where I know if they are being responsible or otherwise.

I also have a terminally ill grandparent, so again, i wont be going out of my way to meet brand new people right now.

Being flaky isn’t great but plans change, it’s not her fault that you’re relying on her for all your company. - she hasnt even been in touch with me. She has done this twice now. It is super rude. I would never flake on a friend unless I was ill or had an emergency. I sure as hell would TELL them if I had to change plans, she doesnt even bother to do this.

As I said, I wont be bothering with her for a while and will focus my energies elsewhere. Thanks for all the advice I have received.

I can see it from both points of view... i can see why you’d be bothered at feeling a bit neglected and forgotten but I can see why she doesn’t want to socialise during the pandemic. I don’t want to project my own feelings but I am a wife and a mother of a toddler (and pregnant again) and am always knackered, working part time as a nurse and always making a massive effort to keep up with my friends. Since lockdown (apart from from the horrendous suffering, illness, negative consequences on nhs and the economy, which goes without saying) a huge wave of relief came over me when I didn’t have to make plans all the time and I could get off the knackering treadmill of life. Of course work was busy but not having to do all the extras has been a big of a blessing if I can admit that.

Maybe your friend feels the same? I have found it really hard to pick up the socialising again!

Also, a couple of years ago (about a year after having my first child, who was a terrible sleeper) a friend messaged me to say something like, “if you want to bother with this friendship I’ll need to see you make some effort”. I was so shocked and upset. I had just had so much on and was probably depressed through the lack of sleep. I was also in the wrong a bit too as hadn’t been making the effort. We talked about it and I apologised but it has never been the same since. I always feel like I’m not doing enough (due to me being paranoid, not because of how she is) and every effort I now make I feel like I have to not because I really want to. It’s changed things and I really wish she’d never said anything.

I guess my advice is not to say anything. I don’t think you’re upset for nothing but you can’t force people to be your friend, if you do, they’ll end up seeing you out of guilt and you might never be happy with the feel of the friendship after that. If she’s being a bit rubbish, my advice is to let it go. If you don’t say anything you’ll always be a friend who is open to her coming back. Sounds like you value her friendship so I’d leave it as easy
and open as possible for her to return to normal whenever she is ready.

And like clockwork - she has been in touch tonight to say she has been busy recently but will now have more time to see me. Nothing about the fact she just didnt bother getting in touch about meeting at the weekend.

I'd still love to see her but I have fatigue from the sheer attempt to make plans with her and the will-she/wont-she each time. Think I will just leave it until our mutual friend makes the plan with us and take it from there.

Yes Kat dont chase her. Annoying to put days on hold then nothing. I have a friend that unless I chase it up nothing. That was June so I just let it be now. Just time wasting!!

@KatDubs261

And like clockwork - she has been in touch tonight to say she has been busy recently but will now have more time to see me. Nothing about the fact she just didnt bother getting in touch about meeting at the weekend.

I'd still love to see her but I have fatigue from the sheer attempt to make plans with her and the will-she/wont-she each time. Think I will just leave it until our mutual friend makes the plan with us and take it from there.

I think this is fair enough in a way, but also ... she’s been in touch, and you’re pissed off, so what benefit is there in ignoring her and holding onto frustration, waiting until your meet with mutual DF? It’s like you’re slightly trying to punish her so she understands what you feel - but without actually telling her.

Just be direct - own it.

“DF, thanks for texting, sorry you’ve been busy. Got to admit, I’m a bit frustrated- I thought we had plans this weekend and it’s not the first time you’ve not got in touch or cancelled on me. Is there something going on? You probably don’t mean it to but it feels a bit hurtful to me.”

You have respiratory issues, just chill out on the socialising and plans, it’s risky behaviour and no one enjoys it, seemingly, so just stay safe and don’t engage in dramas and trivial stuff 🤷‍♀️

I am not going to be meeting anyone in a coffee shop, bar or restaurant until Covid is over. Each person is responsible for their own risk assessment, OP. Actually the numbers would be lower if people would act like your friend. It’s just not fair, the way you are expecting her to waive her boundaries for you.

I dont now why some responses have been so critical. Friendship is a two way street and she obviously isn't putting the effort in. Even if she is over anxious about the covid situation it's not an excuse to let you down and not at least keep in touch via text / telephone. I would just leave her to it OP. Dont make any more plans with her then she can't let you down.

If you're the sort of person who does what they said they were going to do, or makes every effort to give good notice and explain why not, if they are unable to, then flakey people are a really upsetting, baffling, and hurtful experience.

Seems she is temporarily flakey c/- new boyfriend, covid, anxiety, maybe all three. But it's not good for you to be on the receiving end of that, getting let down and deflated, and then waiting again for flakey friend to call as she said she would to make the plan, and getting silence and disappointment instead

Your friend is perfectly reasonable to suggest you meet outside, and since she hasn't met anyone else in a pub etc, it's not personal to you is it? To be honest it sounds as if your approach to socialisation is very systematic, it seems like you want to meet her because you don't want to spend your weekend doing nothing, not because you genuinely like her. She's not there to fill up your weekends. If you 'frankly don't want to always have to go for a walk to see her' then don't go, but don't expect to see her either because that's her boundaries?'I don't want to be cancelled on either.' This is an inevitable part of life, you cancelled on her so you should know that.

'She also sent me a message recently saying 'i can't imagine how lonely you must feel'. This was totally out of nowhere and made me feel like a patronised loser.' Maybe it's because you keep asking her to go into social situations she's not comfortable with exhibiting how desperate you are for social interaction, she's trying to be empathetic, but to be fair you aren't coming across as non desperate in your OP. If your social life is as active as your OP suggests then just make other plans, don't rely on her.

I didn't want to cancel on her.' Maybe she didn't want to cancel on you?
Thinking the worst of your friend isn't exactly good friendship.

'But she has forgotten our plans twice now on a weekend, which leaves me with no plans at all.' Again this sounds very much like you don't actually care about the plans and just don't want to be alone?

I don’t know if ignoring her now she’s messaged is the best way to do it. Perhaps something like sure - what would suit you to do? Set a time and I can check I’m free :)

Not sure if someone has already asked this, but do you actually talk at all or just get in touch to meet up? Have you tried ringing to have a chat or initiating a conversation about how her life is?

@KatDubs261

I have listened. I met her for a walk in a place of her choosing one month ago.

I actually said yes to going for a walk this weekend! But she has flaked.

I met my friend in an outdoor bar with loads of space last week. I am being very careful. I don't always feel up for meeting her somewhere for a walk. I have my own reasons for that. Those saying 'YABU for not meeting where she wants' I disagree. It is not reasonable for her to not meet me in my garden distanced or something similar, at least occasionally.

Just spoke to another friend who is up for having a picnic on Sunday so I'll aim for that.

At the end of the day I never ask to see friends at the weekend and just never get back to them, especially not repeatedly. It is bad form and very rude imo.

Though slightly different as I'm actually on the shielding list, I think that you are perhaps in a very different head space regarding covid. Since March, we have only seen a good friend and her children once from the end of our drive and once for a very distanced picnic in August. That's because I'm very wary. My friend however, is more like you and gadding about. I'm not in that same place. I'd be horrified if she said that our friendship would be impacted because of my risk aversion during a pandemic! As I imagine your friend would be.

You're willing to go to these venues you mention. She isn't. You really need to either get on board with accepting the different venues she will meet or accept you're putting unnecessary pressure and restrictions on her.

The flaky accusation for her cancelling twice could be rounded at you too for cancelling.

Is your garden accessible without going through your house? If so, have you stated that she can come around the back etc and not have to come in the house? That's the only way I'd be visiting anyone right now....

I appreciate that you're single and now on returning everyone else has moved on and in couples. But you really cannot expect everyone else to fill your weekend for you and actually its unhealthy for you to leave your weekend free on the off chance. You'd be better off finding activities that you can enjoy, that if you have time you'll meet your friends....

If you had a meet up a month ago why is your birthday present to her from 3 months ago still in a drawer? Why didn't you give her it a month ago

I can understand why you feel that way n receiving this message OP. I have been in this situation before. I would have got worked up about it too and you're right to be annoyed but so much has happened in my life that I have changed and I just don't care as much what people think and I don't have any desire to maintain friendships with people who don't value and respect our friendship.

I think it's perfectly reasonable to just not reply and to let your friend sort things.

In the nicest possible way, I also think you sound a bit needy- but that's okay, it just means you have needs! You're very different people and have different friendship needs. I have a friend like this who struggles with MH too, and I absolutely understand that she is flaky when unwell and that Covid has just fuelled her anxiety. You want more, and that's okay- but don't punish her for not being able to socialise in the way you want to do it OP. Keep to the friends who are quite full on in their interactions with you, similar to what you're like.

don't punish her for not being able to socialise in the way you want to do it OP.

Friend doesn't need to socialise as OP wants but she shouldn't make a plans and break them. There is no excuse for that.

Just a quick update.

She messaged me again when I didnt reply , asking to meet this weekend. I did reply this time and explained I had other plans this time and that i had thought that she would have got in touch to let me know about our plans last weekend. And that I hoped she was doing ok

She replied saying sorry she has been such a disappointing friend recently and that she hopes we can rectify it. I said I understood it is a hard time and will organise something soon.

I am glad I said something in the end though.

You did well to say something OP

I also think this sort of friend tends to behave different when we do. For example if we are the ones to do the chasing and the texting and then we stop sometimes it surprises them but I wouldn't assume she will not do the same thing again so just be on your guard.

Yes @BunnyLovesBananas she has chased me with messages this week. In the first message she actually said 'I will probably have more time to see you' - probably I thought? Hell with that. Then she tried to make a firmer plan when I didnt respond.

I probably would care less about this kind of flakiness usually but I care more now because I am isolated both for work and home. Seeing a human I know and like on the weekend is important to me!

I have brought it up with her before so she is obviously going to be like this sometimes. Stewing it about it would've been