To be wary of hatred directed towards the British Empire

[Bumpitybumper]

With the rise of movements such as BLM, there seems to be a growing hatred towards the British Empire and a keenness to point out all of the flaws and terrible things the empire and key individuals within it did. I too am horrified when I think about the role that the empire played in slavery and events such as the Irish Potato Famine. As these things become better publicised then there seems to be a growing school of thought that this is a white or at least British people problem that we must somehow atone for and feel guilty about. The British Empire has been cast as the ultimate villain and something we must be ashamed about.

My concern though is that lots of countries around the world have had empires and inevitably when these countries held lots of power, they acted in ways that we would now regard as morally reprehensible. The Mongol and Roman empires for example, were extremely cruel and many empires sort to brutally stamp out religious or cultural differences and gain control. Equally empires have brought about advancements in technology and improved the living standards of millions of people around the world.

Am I therefore being unreasonable to suggest that it is only fair to look at empires holistically and through the lens of the time they operated in? Of course the wrongdoings and horrendous acts mustn't be hidden, but equally they should be given context and positive acts shouldn't be erased either.

@RepeatSwan we mostly have a monarchy still as it brings in a lot of tourism and a lot of other countries still like queen and royal family
That said in 20 years time the royal family will be very different to what it is now
Harry and meghan stepping aside is start of it showing it doesn't fit into modern life in its current format and will need to change going forward

Um, people do realise that Britain is not a victim here? Or are other nations and nationalities being 'mean' when they don't meekly go along with comfortably ignoring the negative impacts they suffered as a result of colonisation?

[quote Notfeelinggreattoday]@RepeatSwan we mostly have a monarchy still as it brings in a lot of tourism and a lot of other countries still like queen and royal family
That said in 20 years time the royal family will be very different to what it is now
Harry and meghan stepping aside is start of it showing it doesn't fit into modern life in its current format and will need to change going forward [/quote]
I disagree, the tourism argument is used to justify the monarchy, but we have one because we live in a conservative nation imo.

Britain has changed less than most European nations. This has both positives and negatives.

@feelingsareweird then I misread what you have put and confused you with another poster, so i apologise
But i still think yes we learn all but within context not applying todays standards to what happened as such and understanding why things were so different and most importantly learn from it
Also all of us have to accept we have a lot of the luxuries in this country now etc due to history and we shouldn't forget that either

@RepeatSwan the monarchy brings in more than it costs thats a fact

@mbosnz

Um, people do realise that Britain is not a victim here? Or are other nations and nationalities being 'mean' when they don't meekly go along with comfortably ignoring the negative impacts they suffered as a result of colonisation?

Ah, now @mbosnz, you’re sooo wrong. Britain is a victim of Europe, which has ensnared it in the chains of Brussels Bureaucracy. Now it going to break free, like a resurgent lion sounding it’s barbaric yawp and do Fabulous Things. Or something.

@RepeatSwan other eu countries still have royal families as well
Like i said i think when queen goes we will see a change here as well

[quote Notfeelinggreattoday]@RepeatSwan the monarchy brings in more than it costs thats a fact [/quote]
If we only have it for tourist income, we could ask Disneyland to run it.

[quote Notfeelinggreattoday]@BinkyBoinky the british do know a lot of the truth about it but every country has behaved badly by today's standard and i don't see the world tell them to all to learn about their bad pasts etc , but it always seems fair game to say the british should or the brits are this or that
You also realise lots of people associate themselves as british now whose ancestors would of been affected by the colonies [/quote]
You haven’t noticed anyone suggesting the US acknowledge any unsavoury aspects of its history recently?! Really?! Look up the ongoing arguments between Korea and Japan over the comfort women for another very prominent example. Of course other countries get pulled up on these things, you just won’t hear about it as much because you’re not in those countries exposed to their media!

The fact that many British people today have links to the colonies is EXACTLY why we should be acknowledging the realities of the empire in schools and other public forums!

Unfortunately we are still suffering from the actions of the British Empire, both historical & current. I urge you to watch Unquiet Graves

@Mbonz so was britain the only country involved in colonisation then as i don't think they were

@Repeatswan of course its not purely for tourism and you know some countries still like the queen
As there head of state but lets not let that get on the way
Also if we just dissolved the monarchy this would have other impacts on us as a country , but it will evolve and change a lot over the coming years

This article covers the arguments and I agree with the final sentence - having a monarchy or not is not a financial question but one of politics, ethics etc.

www.independent.co.uk/news/business/analysis-and-features/royal-wedding-family-how-much-uk-economy-benefits-cost-meghan-markle-expense-a8345436.html

@feelingsareweird we can't cover everything in schools though we barely teach much history at all these days as with technology etc there is so much to be taught
Infact many children stop even studying history by year 9
And its often just couple hrs a week before that

@Straven123

There is a lot of colonialism or events similar to colonialism but Britain gets singled out because it had the biggest empire. It was French colonialism which lead to the Vietnam War, Namibia has just rejected offers of Eu 10 million in reparation for genocide in the early 1900s of indigenous people by the Germans colonists, the French were fighting in Algeria in 1950s, I think it was.

Doesn't make anything better but feeling got at for things that happened in the past won't build empathy, more annoyance imv.
The Germans killed millions in the holocaust which was recent but somehow that isn't raised as much as it wasn't colonialism.

Just addressing your point on Germany. The difference is the Germans don't argue about all the good the nazis did as well as "the bad" stuff or tell us that some other regime was as bad or worse. They're generally not defensive when the subject is brought up and accept that it was a dark part of their history.

[quote Notfeelinggreattoday]@feelingsareweird we can't cover everything in schools though we barely teach much history at all these days as with technology etc there is so much to be taught
Infact many children stop even studying history by year 9
And its often just couple hrs a week before that

[/quote]
This is an irrelevant argument, as with the time one has one should teach the most relevant content.

We should start from the principled question - is there a value to understanding Britain's colonial history?

@RepeatSwan the article has lots of maybe's in it and isn't totally conclusive either

@Mbonz so was britain the only country involved in colonisation then as i don't think they were

Never said they were! But because the British Empire was a very big Empire (they were/some still are quite proud of that fact), it impacted a lot of countries - more than most, wouldn't you say? So perhaps, it's a fairly logical conclusion that there are rather more countries that were negatively impacted by the British Empire, so more of them are looking at Britain as having been the root cause of rather a lot of suffering in their country, by their people, and the beneficiary of that exploitation, and some/sometimes feeling a little bit pissy about it?

With reference to the Japanese Empire, I took a uni' course on Cultural Studies of Japan. There were some very awkward/tense/ chilly moments when the impacts on China and Korea by actions of Japan were mentioned in passing, with the mix of Japanese, Chinese and Korean students on the same course. It was most illuminating.

@Notfeelinggreattoday maybe more would study it post KS3 if they could see its relevance to their lives and their community’s experience represented in the lessons....

Obviously it’s impossible to cover everything in history, but Gove’s history curriculum found space for plenty of Anglo-centric topics...

[quote Notfeelinggreattoday]@RepeatSwan the article has lots of maybe's in it and isn't totally conclusive either[/quote]
Yes, because the financial argument is less clear cut than people say, and is used to distract from the principled debate.

Most people if you asked 'do you believe the royal family are god's representatives in Britain' would not wholeheartedly agree.

In Britain we struggle to discuss concepts such as 'democracy' and often revert to practicalities such as time or money.

so was britain the only country involved in colonisation then as i don't think they were

No one is saying that Britain was the only country to ever colonize. Few would say any country is perfect without any need to look and deal with its own shite.

People are saying that because this is a mainly British forum with people who mostly living in the UK and countries it colonized, people are going to discuss British empires a lot more than other empires, see it being discussed more in media, and want it addressed better in schools. It's size and recent/current impacts means people are going to discuss with more emotions and likely be seen as a higher priority in education, politics, and discussion than any discussion of the impacts of the Mongol empire on Central Asia (not that that doesn't get some people really involved).

There are many conversations going on around the world about how to deal with a nation's past and how to improve things in the present. I'm not one for having governments apologize, as I tell my kids that's only the first step and it's trite on its own for anything that has an impact. I personally like "Beau"/Justin King's discussion on , though he's obviously coming at it from an American perspective, but I think could have merit elsewhere including here. Many countries are wrestling with shite, Britain isn't particularly unique in how it's acting or that it has historical shit to deal with.

@QueenofAsgard

I agree with you entirely OP and don't accept any guilt or shame for the behaviour of my ancestors. I certainly won't be joining in with agreeing how dreadful a nation we are on the back of it. For such a supposedly shit country it's surprising how many people want to come here isn't it?

Exactly and is any other country any better?

@RepeatSwan its not irrelevant there is a lot we don't learn and as years go by less and less , as more history is created . Do you accept than many people like it or not in uk today benefited from the empire as well ?do you not think balance should be to show good and bad and also to look at what the thinking was at the time , how the world worked then may also go to show why some things were done , you have to look at it all and not just by todays standards

@feelingsareweird what anglo saxon History do you refer to ?

Perhaps if more was taught about the impacts of colonisation, future Britons might feel a little less victimised and aggrieved at being 'got at', and might perhaps understand a little more why those histories and descendants of nations and cultures negatively impacted are sometimes a little insensitive to the tender feelings of some British when discussing such things?