dds not wanting to see old friends anymore

[Friendsoftheearth]

I feel fortunate that I have some lovely old friends with dc, and mostly over the years we have all grown up together with the children playing when they were younger and it has been great, but just lately it has become quite strained.

DDs (13 & nearly 16) do not want to see my old friends' children anymore. They tell me they have nothing in common and don't enjoy it. I dds are old enough to decide who they see, so I have since tried to organise just adult evenings and days out with my friends, and this is where the difficulty lies.

My friends for a multiple reasons really are insisting on doing things with dc still.
Some have dc that don't have many/any friends and so really want to see my girls, others see my eldest dd as a good influence and want their dc to hang out with her to keep them away from what has become a troubling period. One other set have a dd that is really quite unkind to my youngest dd. So we obv avoid them. Others have younger ones and can not organise babysitting because of lockdown! I It has become really fraught now we are out of lockdown, and friends want to catch up.

Do I:

1. Insist on adults only get togethers and if I don't see them, that is fine
2. Take tc and make it short and sweet
3. Distance from it all for a while, see more straight forward friends
4. A solution I haven't thought of! Am I being unreasonable or selfish?

This is causing some tension between us, because I don't want to say outright and hurt anyone's feelings that my dc are no longer interested - and probably never were really, so I have been saying dc are busy with sports, revision etc but then they ask for the next free date!!

How do others manage this transition?
The whole group gathering just doesn't work anymore..

Do your friends actually come out and say that they want your dd to be a good influence on their wayward children? Yes, pretty much. One set of friends that go back have a dd that is always getting drunk and disappearing she loves my dd, so will come to us with her parents so they can hang out. My dd is not into partying at the moment, but is a steady old friend, and they do get on well.
So yes now my friend is always trying to organise things that she can bring her teen dd to, and I do understand why. The last time her dd brought vodka with her so it is not something that is prob going to work out in the longer term

lime it is a headache isn't it! I had not envisaged this part of our lives as being the serious social headache that it has become.

Your situation sounds identical to mine, and I also feel for some families it will be deal breaker, and they see it as whole family affair. Your dd and mine have done their stint as children, and they have decided to pursue other friendships now they are older. It does not make any easier as you say, and I have come to literally dread certain texts popping up now.

We are all supposed to be 'catching up' after the lockdown with our closest friends, and it can feel like rejection when you try to back the dc out of proceedings.

It sounds like your DDs have done you proud over the years being polite and engaging with your friends children but I think it’s time to let them go. They’re at the age now when they will be managing their own social life so I don’t think you should get questioned too much by your friends as to why they’re not coming! I’d just quickly brush over it with a breezy ‘oh they’re far too busy to be tagging along with me now’ and leave it at that.

I would do as suggested and just give a flippant 'They're off with their friends all the time now, they don't want to spent time with us any more!' and hope they leave it.

brie Thank you, dds are now duly released! Like wild birds from the quagmire of their mother's boring friendships at long last

It will be a good test of the friendships to see if they will adapt without the dc, and for the much older friendships to see if we still have plenty in common (or not) with the dc there. As with marriages, it can become 'all about the children' rather than shared values with some friends. So yes another transition is upon us all.

Depending how many in each family the rule of six might just mean that its a non-issue for a while

With what you've said I'd prewar s's mum and others.
"Hi, looking forward to seeing everyone, in case it makes a difference to anyone's plans, my dc won't be joining us, they've got lots on with school'

Don't add 'this time' and if anyone says ' oh it's a shame etc' just say, well they're all growing up, things change.

So they won't expect that this is a one off.

@Friendsoftheearth it is hard indeed! And like you, when we did all that lovely whole-family socialising from when they were 6 years old or so, I could never have imagined being in this position!

I think actually even worse than the awkward meetups themselves was me trying to gee up DD16 beforehand ie to try to stop her putting her foot down completely and to try to win her round... It was sooooo painful!

And like you, for at least one of those families I think it is a deal-breaker for them, ie they see the 4 of us as a whole package, hence my friend being so fixed on us meeting with the 'kids'. But although I believe in being kind I don't feel this should be at the expense of either my daughter or of me (cringing at the tumbleweed silence coming from the teens). So I've had to be pretty pragmatic about accepting that not all friendships are for life.

Interestingly, with my (much younger) daughter I think future refusals to do whole family meet ups (ie with those new families we've got to know via her primary school) are unlikely as she is just SO laid back! So I'll probably be on the other side of this and will have to give myself a stern talking to about picking up on early signs that our friends' future teens no longer want to take part in similar gatherings

You can’t force them to join you now it would for these gatherings, and It would be awkward anyway if they grudgingly come, but make it obvious they really don’t want to be there. I had that once with DS who told me afterwards that he didn’t want to spend time with a boy he never really got on with.

dorrest Yes I have already made that mistake of putting 'this time', only for it to immediately be jumped on when WOULD be a good time!

lime Oh the tumbleweed conversation is actually toe curling. I am not sure what is worse when they try to make the effort and fail awfully, or the total absence of any effort and they sit mute on their phones for hours, counting down until they can come home, studiously ignoring each other.

I really thought it would be good for dc to expand their social skills in the early days, but quickly learnt that this was in no way going to expand anything but resentment.

Even old friends of years have shocked me during this patch. One offering my dd alcohol on arrival at 14 years old. Another making her teen play kids games, god that was dreadful. My own efforts at cricket etc - not sure I will be forgiven for that one. Maybe the time we will come when we will all laugh about this stage, and our gimmicks to include our reluctant teens! I hope that will be the outcome.

I also think we were all naive, I just assumed because they have grown up together they will find it all effortless, wrong! They would gain something from old friendships, wrong again. Of course they will look forward to seeing each other, wrong yet again. Old friends would provide consistency and love, teens don't care about consistency and love is all about teen boys!

So yes I am with you about the friendships not being for life possibly, and accepting that some will fall inevitably by the wayside if they can't change or adapt.

I had a friend who only wanted to be friends with mums with DCs the same age, and then would insist they were all best mates and when it suited her, they MUST be together all the time. Actually it was her DCs who went off mine which was sad, but not to worry everyone moves on so I believed our friendship would turn into a coffee and drinks one but no - she still remained friends with SOME mums with DCs the same age, if they had either a pool, a villa with a pool, or worked in entertainments and could get VIP tickets etc. Those of us with a part time job who hadn't even been to a caravan park, let alone left the country in, years and hardly ever went out, we were relegated to the Z list! (poor people are no funnnn!)

dishing I know people like that too! They are not friends, they are no one's friends. They are just sucking up as many freebies and an easy ride, and everyone will be dropped one by one unless they are actively delivering. Cash point friends.

@Friendsoftheearth

dorrest Yes I have already made that mistake of putting 'this time', only for it to immediately be jumped on when WOULD be a good time!

lime Oh the tumbleweed conversation is actually toe curling. I am not sure what is worse when they try to make the effort and fail awfully, or the total absence of any effort and they sit mute on their phones for hours, counting down until they can come home, studiously ignoring each other.

I really thought it would be good for dc to expand their social skills in the early days, but quickly learnt that this was in no way going to expand anything but resentment.

Even old friends of years have shocked me during this patch. One offering my dd alcohol on arrival at 14 years old. Another making her teen play kids games, god that was dreadful. My own efforts at cricket etc - not sure I will be forgiven for that one. Maybe the time we will come when we will all laugh about this stage, and our gimmicks to include our reluctant teens! I hope that will be the outcome.

I also think we were all naive, I just assumed because they have grown up together they will find it all effortless, wrong! They would gain something from old friendships, wrong again. Of course they will look forward to seeing each other, wrong yet again. Old friends would provide consistency and love, teens don't care about consistency and love is all about teen boys!

So yes I am with you about the friendships not being for life possibly, and accepting that some will fall inevitably by the wayside if they can't change or adapt.

You put this so eloquently. I thought it would be a little like having extra siblings or cousins for my eldest and that these would be bonds for life, I know the parents of those particular families still feel this, but that just isn't the case!

I think also as a PP said, teenage downtime is very precious to them around school/college work, and they want every minute to 'count' hence why they feel such resentment about spending time with people they wouldn't choose to hang out with in other circumstances. I don't know about others but my DD16 can actually get a bit low if she doesn't feel she's connecting with people, so it's not just the pre-meet persuading and during-meet awkward agony, but she would also be low and a little resentful afterwards of what she felt was a wasted evening. An all round lose-lose!

Interesting what you say also about how some of those parents had surprised you in their approach to teens - I think this is also a pivotal time where differences in parenting come to the fore again, just as they did in those early years. Sometimes they match our own values, sometimes the differences are grating but liveable with, and sometimes the differences are so marked that you actually don't want your very aware teen to see you accept things that are miles from your own values!

You mentioning the teens on their phones reminded me of a time when the other parents banned phones for their kids for the evening so I felt I had to do the same. It didn't go down well with DD...

Real childhood friendships grow apart, mine went to high school with friends, then made new ones. They went to sixth form with friends, and old ones faded away. Let them be.

Yes it is sad when the DCs don't want to hang out together anymore, but I'd be annoyed when your friends only want you as part of a package.

We used to go on holiday together with two other families- the DMs are my friends from uni - but unfortunately the family holidays ran their course - DS was the only boy - and eventually even getting the families together for lunch proved impossible due to peoples busy calendars. One friend tried her best to keep the family get togethers going, but then my other friends DD turned into a tricky teen and DS started putting his foot down, and we've now persuaded friend to see us solo - although down to new Scottish restrictions we won't be seeing each other for a while.

It's also mildly insulting that your friends don't value your own company enough just for yourself. I've been visiting my octogenarian DPs a lot more than usual since lockdown eased, and every time DF goes oh it would be nice if you bring DH, DS or at least the dog . Like I'm not good enough on my own.

You're right not to force them OP.

Having replied earlier that you shouldn’t force your DC, I feel slightly differently about the old friends whose DC (your godchild) has struggled with friendships.

From what you say your DC used to be close to their DC and look forward to seeing them. Given that, I think you should explain to your DC that friend’s DC has had problems finding friends, and would really like to see them, and that it would be kind to go to see her.

If they are still reluctant, then perhaps you should put the onus on your DC to explain to this girl why they won’t come and see her like they used to. Ask them to write a text (which you’d look at) explaining why they can’t come. After all that is what they are going to have to do as adults if they want to drop an old friend. Don’t make it easy for them by making their excuses.

Totally disagree. Why should ops girls give their precious time to “be kind”. Why the hell should they be put through that awful process of explaining why they don’t want to shoulder an obligation friendship that they never asked for or even initiated themselves. What terrible advice! Would you really make your own kids do this?! Really?! Where does it end? Forced friendships by older girls aren’t going to solve this child’s issues anyway.

minipie "don't make it easy for them by making their excuses" I think would be more appropriate if they had chosen these girls as friends and now wanted to drop them, but in fact they (OP's DDs) have never had a say in whether they wanted to be friends or not, or go on these group events or not. Now they are old enough to have a say and know their own mind, and I think it's appropriate that OP should respect that and also not put them in the position of having to explain. It was never their choice in the first place. I think OP should place her DD's feelings first. I'm sure they have lots of opportunity to practice "be kind" etc in their own lives, in their own ways. I don't think many of us as adults would want to be told we had to be entertainment/false friends for someone, whether we wanted to or not.

LanternLights and MsTSwift if they have always been “reluctant friends” with this girl then I would agree with you.

But I got the impression from OP’s that they had been genuine friends with her for many years and really looked forward to seeing her. If that is the case then I do think they should have to think about how they end the friendship without hurting feelings - same as any friendship.

However maybe I misread and it has always been a forced/reluctant friendship from the OP DC side. Only OP knows if they used to be genuine friends or forced friends.

So what? They spent time with them purely because their parents happened to be friends. They had no choice your response is like a punishment. Seems extremely harsh they have done nothing to deserve punishment. People should be free to choose who to be friends with and not reprimanded for not wanting to be someone’s friend. Truly dreadful parenting hope you wouldn’t act on your own awful advice irl.

@minipie

Having replied earlier that you shouldn’t force your DC, I feel slightly differently about the old friends whose DC (your godchild) has struggled with friendships.

From what you say your DC used to be close to their DC and look forward to seeing them. Given that, I think you should explain to your DC that friend’s DC has had problems finding friends, and would really like to see them, and that it would be kind to go to see her.

If they are still reluctant, then perhaps you should put the onus on your DC to explain to this girl why they won’t come and see her like they used to. Ask them to write a text (which you’d look at) explaining why they can’t come. After all that is what they are going to have to do as adults if they want to drop an old friend. Don’t make it easy for them by making their excuses.

Like that will go over well. I don't want to see you because I jave friends that I like more than you....No one needs to say anything. Peole should stop.dictating their children's friendships. I don't want to. Thats all thats needed. OP.wouldn't jave to be giving excuses for her children if she stopped making these plans with her friends that include her children without asking her children

Wonder if boys would be expected to “be kind” in this manner 🙄

@Friendsoftheearth

oblov I think for the friends that have children that are struggling they may see this as me not doing anything to help their dc. I know they are having friendship issues at school, I am aware of problems and yet I choose to leave dc at home when we could be there for them.

If I am honest, I am worried it will come across like that. Esp the ones where we have been there for each other through difficult times. It feels a wee bit unkind. I know they are trying to build up friends for their dc.

I think you’re getting sucked into drama with these people and your kids are being used. Not fair, not your problem, definitely not your DCs problem. Get some boundaries!

@MsTSwift

Wonder if boys would be expected to “be kind” in this manner 🙄

Yes! Girls have been trained to ignore their own feelings and prioritise other’s needs over their own for generations and it creates all sorts of problems. I’ve caught up with the whole thread and it sounds like you’ve done the right thing OP. All the kids, including the needy ones, need to learn that a friendship based on a sense of obligation isn’t a genuine or healthy thing.

Surely the Rule of Six has saved you here?