dds not wanting to see old friends anymore

[Friendsoftheearth]

I feel fortunate that I have some lovely old friends with dc, and mostly over the years we have all grown up together with the children playing when they were younger and it has been great, but just lately it has become quite strained.

DDs (13 & nearly 16) do not want to see my old friends' children anymore. They tell me they have nothing in common and don't enjoy it. I dds are old enough to decide who they see, so I have since tried to organise just adult evenings and days out with my friends, and this is where the difficulty lies.

My friends for a multiple reasons really are insisting on doing things with dc still.
Some have dc that don't have many/any friends and so really want to see my girls, others see my eldest dd as a good influence and want their dc to hang out with her to keep them away from what has become a troubling period. One other set have a dd that is really quite unkind to my youngest dd. So we obv avoid them. Others have younger ones and can not organise babysitting because of lockdown! I It has become really fraught now we are out of lockdown, and friends want to catch up.

Do I:

1. Insist on adults only get togethers and if I don't see them, that is fine
2. Take tc and make it short and sweet
3. Distance from it all for a while, see more straight forward friends
4. A solution I haven't thought of! Am I being unreasonable or selfish?

This is causing some tension between us, because I don't want to say outright and hurt anyone's feelings that my dc are no longer interested - and probably never were really, so I have been saying dc are busy with sports, revision etc but then they ask for the next free date!!

How do others manage this transition?
The whole group gathering just doesn't work anymore..

Quite torn here because OTOH it is fair enough for your DDs to want to do their own thing, OTOH it is important to understand about social obligations and family life.

No. There is literally no social obligation to spend a significant chunk of your free time (ie a precious day off study) pretending to be friends with people who you do not enjoy the company of, or who have been actively unpleasant to you.

That's an incredibly unhelpful behaviour to model for young people. All relationships, romantic or friendships, should be because the people in them authentically want to spend time together because they enjoy it, and treat each other well.

Very important for teen girls and boys to set them on the path for healthy relationships. However the reality is that girls and women are the ones who are often encouraged to just be nice and give somebody a chance etc - so actually I think it's more important that young women are taught to listen to their own feelings about whether a relationship (of any kind) makes them feel relaxed and happy, or whether it makes them uncomfortable - and if it does that they have zero obligation to stay for the benefit of the other person.

I think they are old enough to make their own decisions and it's not something personally that I would choose to battle over with them.

My friends also like dcs getting together but it doesn't really work that well for me with the odd combination between us of ages and interests (and personality likes/dislikes); plus when I see my friends I want a good old child-free chat and gossip rather than a playdate scenario.

I'd just say the eldest is busy with her friends and school work and the younger one is busy with her interests and school work, so they're not really that free these days. I wouldn't say you were the "uncool mother" - it sounds like an excuse and also my friends would think it indicative of a negative relationship between myself and my DCs because their dcs are happy to come out with them. It almost blames your DDs for thinking you're uncool (which I bet they don't). I would just say it like it is. (but with the slant on busy rather than not liking to!)

the do you think it would be harder with no children there? Do you think your ds going took the heat off your dd? Or would friends be relaxed either way?
With our other friends they are totally chilled about who comes, who doesn't. I don't even need to mention it. I only have the problem with just a few, and they are the ones that tend to have dc that have problems elsewhere, and are expecting more than we can give right now. It does feel like an obligation of sorts.

Yes and you could quite easily imagine that they are almost 'using' my dds as surrogate friends, because I guess if my friends' dc had friendships of their own we wouldn't see them for dust!

Had a similar situation with a longstanding group of friends (some of whom were family members to each other). It was fine when they were little but my dc (and one in particular) didn't like the social obligation. As all the children grew up it was clear that some of the other dc felt the same and wanted to do their own thing, and yet some of them loved the long-standing camaraderie and feeling of being part of a bigger family / friendship group. They all have to find their own way through this. One of my dc was very quiet and shy and hated the big group of marauding children thing, it would have been unfair to force her into it. Dc does now attend some adult events with the same group, but as a working adult making their own choice.

However, over many years it has weakened my friendship with some of the group, because eventually I wanted to go out with them as adults and not spend hours quizzing Jonathan about his work experience, feigning an interest in Sam's hockey tournament, or hearing about Milly's volunteering trip to save the elephants.

I agree absent and I am very keen for them to continue to choose the people around them very carefully and wisely. Dds have great boundaries, and I am mindful mine haven't always been as strong as they should be, and so I do take care to watch this.

You could argue I am only on the thread because I am not being firm enough about my own boundaries in saying no to my friends in the first place, but there we are!

I'd do what others have suggested and lightly say that your DDs make their own plans now.

I've had the same happen in that my good friends are those that I met through DC's school.

We just meet as adults now.

DS was best friends with one of the DC but now have nothing in common. You can't force it.

"oh it is such a shame dd1 and dd2 can't be here, Sxxx would have loved to have seen them' and her dd was at a loose end, as she had no one to hang out with."

Was S the only child there then?

In which case perhaps their parents should be leaving them at home rather than them kicking their heels as the lone child?

However, over many years it has weakened my friendship with some of the group, because eventually I wanted to go out with them as adults and not spend hours quizzing Jonathan about his work experience, feigning an interest in Sam's hockey tournament, or hearing about Milly's volunteering trip to save the elephants.

Yes this is it! Almost like the entire friendship in some cases is built around propping up the children as well as the adults. I think some of my friendships will be damaged by my choice to leave dds at home, and already have been to some degree. Some people see their friendships perhaps more as transactions to get maximum benefit for each individual of the family, rather than the value of the friendship just as it is.

I am glad I am not the only one wrestling with this!!

@Friendsoftheearth

Just to be clear, I do not expect my dds to be there for friends dd, at all, but definitely at least one of my friends is expecting this, that is their expectation that we will help not mine. Her dd really likes my dd, and likes to see her, she doesn't have any friends at the moment and so this is now more important to her. I have eased my dd out of the situation when she said she wanted to stop seeing her, but that hasn't stopped my friend from asking, and in some cases making me feel bad for not meeting up altogether. An example was over the summer, she said not one of her dd's school friends had made contact over the lockdown and how much she was looking forward to seeing dd. I said dd was very busy at the moment and probably couldn't make it, and she sounded really upset and disappointed. I can deal with this, of course as an adult, but I am not heartless and really felt for her when she was telling me about it. I don't intend to change my position, but I do feel for her.

You are doing the absolute right thing. Your DD isn't 'entertainment' for your friend's DD. If her DD has no friends, perhaps she'd be better off on focusing why that is rather than trying to guilt trip you into providing a 'friend on demand' for her.

As far as 'social obligations', not your circus not your monkeys! DH has a branch of his family whose claim to fame is the number of felonies they've each racked up. There are cousins around the same age as our DS1. When DS1 got to his early teens he point-blank refused to attend any family events these cousins were also attending. He said all they did was try to drag him into questionable 'schemes' and to get him to smoke pot. We told him he needn't be around them if he didn't want to. At that point we told him that of course he could stay home! Did we get shit for it? Yes. Did we care? Hell, no. It wasn't his job to be a 'good example' for these hooligans nor expose himself to possible trouble. And this was family, not friends.

So bollocks to 'social obligations'! The wants of our own children far outweigh the wants of some random friend's or relatives child.

Sorry if I've missed this but why don't you just arrange to meet up as usual, dc included. On Feb day ask your dd's if they would like to come and if not just go without them - explain that they are teens and wanted to do other things? Why does yours not coming mean other dc can't come?

On THE day.

I believe their age is a good enough reason to give. Going anywhere much with mine became a chore due to low level dissatisfaction! I explained this to other people.

Your DDs are teenagers. I'm not sure that dragging a pair of reluctant, put-upon teens along to a meet up of long-standing friends is going to enhance the experience for anyone!

My DDs are quite a bit older than most of my oldest friends' DC. For years, the children happily played together and occupied themselves but these days, my nearly 16-yr-old will absolutely pick and choose what she comes along to which I think is fine. My 11-yr-old still enjoys the meet ups and also appreciates being the eldest child there rather than the younger sibling of the eldest! If they had other plans for their day, or didn't want to come along then I wouldn't make them.

Going forward, would you be able to arrange dates with your friends and be non-committal about your DDs so no one feels as though they've taken their children along with the promise of yours being there? Maybe say, 'I'll be there, will let you know if either of the girls will be with me nearer the time - everything's very up in the air at the moment".

@Friendsoftheearth

Just to be clear, I do not expect my dds to be there for friends dd, at all, but definitely at least one of my friends is expecting this, that is their expectation that we will help not mine. Her dd really likes my dd, and likes to see her, she doesn't have any friends at the moment and so this is now more important to her. I have eased my dd out of the situation when she said she wanted to stop seeing her, but that hasn't stopped my friend from asking, and in some cases making me feel bad for not meeting up altogether. An example was over the summer, she said not one of her dd's school friends had made contact over the lockdown and how much she was looking forward to seeing dd. I said dd was very busy at the moment and probably couldn't make it, and she sounded really upset and disappointed. I can deal with this, of course as an adult, but I am not heartless and really felt for her when she was telling me about it. I don't intend to change my position, but I do feel for her.

Of course you feel for your friend and her DD, you'd need a heart of stone not to.

You can offer moral support yourself yet still shield your own DD.

My DD2 wasn't one who easily made friends at school. I still didn't expect any of my other friends to offer up their own children as solutions though and I think your friend is being rather unreasonable to push for this.

You'll have to manage her expectations. Each meet-up just say that you are coming without your DDs because they have other things going on. No need for anything else, and hopefully she will gradually get the message.

It is sad and difficult for your friend's DD (I didn't have an easy time at school either), but there needs to be a good boundary in place here. Without wishing to sound too cavalier, it isn't fair to expect your DDs to provide any form of solution

did yes it was quite awkward when she brought S with her, and my dds couldn't make it. It was also a little tedious having to make conversation for so long with S and has its limits if I am honest, and I am not keen to do it again, even though I am very fond of S.

I think you are massively overthinking this OP. This situation is very common. We certainly had friendships with other couples when our children were at nursery and/or school together; socialised as families, went away together occasionally etc., the children used to get on together, some great, some not so great, and then they grow up and develop as individuals. My DC are 30 and 25 now, and I still see a few of the friends I made when they were small, but our respective DC have little or nothing to do with each other. That's perfectly natural and normal. The issue you have is with these other parents weirdly being so keen for your DC to be involved. I think you've had good advice here, just say "oh they're doing their own thing these days, and hanging out with boring old mum is the last thing they want to do.

potato Of course friends children can come and would be welcome anytime, but my experience is that it isn't very satisfactory for anyone. The dc get bored with the adult conversation and don't enjoy it as much without other dc, my friend looked worried about her dc getting bored and was constantly including her in every single conversation. So what do you think about that S, wouldn't it have been nice if the other girls were too, and so on.

top it has been pretty awful for them for years, so I do really feel for her as far as her dd is concerned, and I had hoped it would get easier as the dc got older. I am sorry you have been through that too.

I agree that you'd have to be heartless to not feel for "S".

But Mum trying to manage friendships won't help, will it?

robert You wouldn't think it would be such a sticking point but it is, and amplified by lockdown I think.

Many people are assessing their friendships, and are additionally needing their children to socialise outside school much more because it has been closed for six months. For some families this has had a really big impact on their children, some of whom are friends of mine.

did I think when you are a parent in that situation you are desperate for the situation to resolve itself or to help fix it. My friend used to drive by and see her dd by herself every playtime. It is very hard to watch. Every night S would come home and be sad that she had no one to play with. I can't see there was any reason, she just didn't click with that particular cohort. It was upsetting for my friend, and to know others have their friends and seem very happy and settled at school.

So you can see why it has been hard to say no my dds can't make it. Esp as they used to count down the weeks and days to see us, like an advent calendar when dc were young. Our visits were actively used as a 'treat' which is a huge compliment in some ways, but has left me feeling rather responsible for S in some ways. She is also my GD, so I have some moral duty to her I feel.

I have the same with my DD16 and 3 whole-families friends of ours. For a long while I dragged her along but don't have any intention to now. I have one friend in particular who talks about our DDs special bond and how lovely it would be to get them together. They were indeed friends until they were 11 but have vastly different interests now and my DD doesn't want the awkwardness. I'm sad to say that because of this, the distance we live apart and the fact that ourselves as adults have probably developed in different directions, we haven't met up for 2 years and I feel a sense of both dread & guilt when I have a message/phone call from that friend, lovely as she is.

I do insist that my DDs come with us to relatives as I feel that's part of their growing up which they shouldn't make excuses to get out of (again, distance means these trips aren't often anyway).

I intend to continue to allow my eldest to avoid those awkward friends meet ups even if it means us missing out on seeing the adults. Life's too short for those type of painful quite embarrassing evenings...and I've had a few. Anything to avoid that!

My DB I had this with my DM when I was younger, we were friends with the DC of the close friends of hers but they lived the other side of London, a fair old drive away but we had to see them at birthdays etc and my DM and 2 of her best friends had a huge birthday picnic on a large common (often near one of her best friend's houses) once a year for many years.

We both brought our own friends to these picnics and as we had little or nothing in common anymore with these friends and they had their own friends it worked out that we just didn't mix much apart from saying hello etc.

You certainly don't need to drag your DC along to events with these friends and their DC and your teens won't thank you for it.

I also had another scenario whereby 2 best friends of my DB and I (and my DM) whom we saw a lot, went on holiday with together etc and went to secondary school together with, at 16 onwards we just lost touch and though we saw each other when on holiday from Uni etc and at family parties, again it was stilted and I recall them at one family party of ours looking very awkward standing around. It's a slight pity because though we reconnected later on - my DM still saw their DM socially sometimes, we just didn't have the same things in common and weren't really friends. Life happens and you grow apart.

OP - about the GD (goddaughter) part of it - one of the DM's in my situation listed above is still GM (godmother) to either myself or my DB - I forget who but it's on our baptism/christening certificate.

AFAIK she's not been that bothered about being a GM to either of us whom she's GP to since we were at least teenagers. Also the rest of our GPs apart from my stepfather who is mine or my DB's GP no one has any contact with either, so it's no great shakes there either.