Questions for white people

[Questionspandemic]

Why are white people offended by black people talking about racism?

Obviously not all white people are racist and name changed - in case of gaslighting.

[quote MandosHatHair]@PatricksRum if you 'don't care' about your history, why should I care about mine?[/quote]
Where did I say I don't care about my history?

Who even are you?

@GoatWardrobe

My point was that if your demographic is linked to certain crimes then why would you object to being stopped if by doing so the crimes were lessened or eradicated?

With respect, that's the classic response of someone from a privileged majority demographic who has never been profiled, regularly stopped and questioned at airports or ferries, or treated with automatic suspicion by the police in the full knowledge of appalling miscarriages of justice upon people with your 'profile'.

How would you feel if, say, the EDL were outlawed for violent terrorist offences, and because its membership, though a matter of a couple of thousand, is white and British, you were regularly stopped and searched because you fitted that profile, and, should you object, were told that you should be happy to cooperate because it will lessen or eradicate EDL-related crimes committed by white British people?

Given that you have no idea what my ethnicity is as I have never (and probably won't ever) disclose it here, I am not sure how you can validate your first paragraph.

With regard to your second point, whatever demographic profile I fit I would be more than happy to be stopped if someone fitting my general description/colour/age group was suspected of a crime.

I think this explains it very well:

*I don't think that an entire demographic should be targeted because of the actions of a minority because I don't think that's justifiable and I also don't believe that's happening, particularly in the UK.

I do think though that if the police have intelligence to suggest that a particular demographic pose immediate threat or are suspected of committing a crime then I support the police stopping people that fit that description.

If, for example, they have reports that a white man in his 20s has been seen brandishing a knife in the town centre why is it wrong for them to stop all white men in their 20s?*

@PatricksRum then why respond to me if it has nothing to do with you? I was responding to the other PP discussing how WP are stereotyped

[quote LastResorts]@PatricksRum then why respond to me if it has nothing to do with you? I was responding to the other PP discussing how WP are stereotyped [/quote]
Is there a reason you tagged me if you weren't typing to me?

Given that you have no idea what my ethnicity is as I have never (and probably won't ever) disclose it here, I am not sure how you can validate your first paragraph.

I don't need to 'validate' it. We're all anonymous here. I don't know your ethnicity, you could 'disclose' it and be lying. All I will say is that your response demonstrates no understanding of being profiled, or that the police and judiciary might not be impartial towards you.

With regard to your second point, whatever demographic profile I fit I would be more than happy to be stopped if someone fitting my general description/colour/age group was suspected of a crime.

Now you're talking about something entirely different -- a specific individual who has committed or is suspected of committing, a specific crime. If a red-haired 40something Irishwoman is a suspect for a crime in central London, then it would be deeply unreasonable for me to object to being questioned, as I walk peacefully through Soho to work. But surely you can see the difference between that and always being stopped because you are always automatically under suspicion because of your ethnicity?

You responded to my first post. Then you say it’s nothing to do with you. I’m confused as to why you’d respond when it’s clear I’m discussing stereotypes. @PatricksRum

@LastResorts

You responded to my first post. Then you say it’s nothing to do with you. I’m confused as to why you’d respond when it’s clear I’m discussing stereotypes. *@PatricksRum*

Belief of a particular group of people. Some people will say “all whites people” I understand that the thread says not all. But in real life, this view is commonly held of white people. I am living through this belief

This ^ has nothing to do with me.

I was discussing a thread.
You're telling me what people I don't know nor have seen say do say is nothing to do with me.

@PatricksRum Haven't you heard of ethnic cleansing and genocide? This type of racism occurs everywhere and has done since people formed separate and identifiable tribes or races. Native American Indians, the holocaust, Bosnia. The list is endless.

Even in the animal kingdom difference isn't always tolerated. Albino animals are often killed for their difference.

Natural doesn't mean it's right, and it's in some part of the human DNA to be wary of 'difference'.

Black people don't have a monopoly on racism. It's an unpleasant part of human nature, and by recognising this and fighting against it, we have a better chance of overcoming it.

Babies aren't racist of course, but they grow up in a society and if that society has a large element of racism, that baby risks becoming racist. The answer is in education, but it's a long battle and denying ingrained, wrong beliefs and not challenging them, we will not change.

Black people don't have a monopoly on racism. It's an unpleasant part of human nature,

Unbelievable.

"Belief of a particular group of people. Some people will say “all whites people” I understand that the thread says not all. But in real life, this view is commonly held of white people. I am living through this belief"

Let's spend a few minutes working on the basis that this statement is true.

Instead of feeling sorry for yourself and lashing out at the people who think this of "all white people" (whoever they may be), why don't you spend a small amount of your time challenging the behaviours of other white people that keep these perceptions alive in the first place? Instead of moping around saying NAWPALT.

We need to move away from talking about and framing racism as an issue of individual action or thought, and to a system which benefits white people, just as sexism and misogyny benefits men. The ravages of colonialism is felt the world over, from South Africa to the US to India, and continues to manifest itself in poor outcomes for people who are not white in health, education and general prosperity. People on here have mentioned the disparities between white people - yes, we know there is a brutal history of oppression of the Irish but if you look at the history of the USA the Irish were prominent in the slave trade in the deep South. I say this to demonstrate the ingrained hierarchy of privilege and oppression which saw black people at the bottom and white people of varying backgrounds on the top. This is not a history lesson, it continues today in different forms and guises.

Rather than be defensive and reduce this discussion to what you do or do not do or say, or deflect to discuss the working class and its oppression (as if only white people are working class!), please take this as an opportunity to learn and reflect on how this systemic oppression works and manifests, from adverse maternal health outcomes for non-white women to Stop and Search to job discrimination based on name. Akala's book Natives is a good start for those interested in understanding systemic oppression and white privilege.

I sincerely recommend that anybody who has their misgivings about why black people are currently so angry and who they're angry at, watches this video.

I also suggest that instead of picking it apart, highlighting reasons why you may think it's not an accurate example, you just listen. Because regardless of what you think is accurate, this is how people feel.

@AMemeByAnyOtherName how do you know I don’t?

Moping around you say, well the thread asked a question aimed at WP. I’m giving my opinion. Clearly it’s offended some people.

[quote LastResorts]@AMemeByAnyOtherName how do you know I don’t?

Moping around you say, well the thread asked a question aimed at WP. I’m giving my opinion. Clearly it’s offended some people.[/quote]

How do you know that I think you don't?

Who even are you?

A thirty something year old mum of two, anything else you want to know?

EDSGFC

History tells the tale.

History does not reflect well on anyone.

Patricksrum

I don't care.

History tells us that white people are racist.

You say babies aren't racist but you also say that it is a fact, not a stereotype that white people are racist, so at what point do all these white babies become racists?

Instead of feeling sorry for yourself and lashing out at the people who think this of "all white people" (whoever they may be), why don't you spend a small amount of your time challenging the behaviours of other white people that keep these perceptions alive in the first place? Instead of moping around saying NAWPALT

This is why ^ @AMemeByAnyOtherName

This thread asked a question as to why WP feel uncomfortable discussing race. I asked Ops question. Why has it offended you?

Here’s your post from September, when someone posted a thread saying they were intimidated by conspiracy theories in the US. You IMMEDIATELY deflected to Muslims. It’s hilarious how you’re so quick to vilify Muslims but defend whites people.

Sorry I didn't realise I couldn't highlight that racism isn't the preserve of one group. I shall only criticise white racists from now on.

@AMemeByAnyOtherName

"Belief of a particular group of people. Some people will say “all whites people” I understand that the thread says not all. But in real life, this view is commonly held of white people. I am living through this belief"

Let's spend a few minutes working on the basis that this statement is true.

Instead of feeling sorry for yourself and lashing out at the people who think this of "all white people" (whoever they may be), why don't you spend a small amount of your time challenging the behaviours of other white people that keep these perceptions alive in the first place? Instead of moping around saying NAWPALT.

Because such sweeping statements ignore individual reality.

I know people love to wave white privilege around and then claim it doesn't mean that all white people are privileged but actually, I think you telling someone that they should be challenging other white people demonstrates that you do think all white people are privileged.

Do you think it's realistic to tell a white man, working a minimum wage job on zero hours contract to challenge his boss about a racist comment? Morally, yes, but if that challenge sees him slung out of his job and then unable to pay his bills how likely is he to do it?

Or the white woman, living with an abusive, bullying, racist husband - you'd expect her to challenge him about his racist comments?

There are power imbalances and abuses within the white population too. Many people aren't in the position to challenge those "above" them, no matter how much they disagree.

Of course, many others are in a position to challenge and they absolutely should and of course people should challenge friends and family (when it's safe to do so) but issuing just sweeping blanket judgements on people just ignored all of the other injustice and power imbalances that exist in society.

I remember reading on a thread about microaggressions and someone claimed how an example of racism was when a white woman crossed the road because this posters black husband was walking behind her and I remember just thinking "many women would do that if any man was behind her". It's ignoring any other factors in society and boiling it all down to race that makes these discussions so difficult I think.

@LastResorts

Instead of feeling sorry for yourself and lashing out at the people who think this of "all white people" (whoever they may be), why don't you spend a small amount of your time challenging the behaviours of other white people that keep these perceptions alive in the first place? Instead of moping around saying NAWPALT

This is why ^ @AMemeByAnyOtherName

This thread asked a question as to why WP feel uncomfortable discussing race. I asked Ops question. Why has it offended you?

Ah, well, if we're going by the things we've said on this thread, then that's how I know you don't challenge the behaviour.

@AMemeByAnyOtherName that’s laughable.

@EDSGFC I have a white parent, and a black parent. My white father was very much brutish working class, which apparently is the lowest of the low according to some posters. Lucky me. That wasn't the reason we were chased from our home, though. There really isn't much you can teach me about these things. I saw the disparity between the treatment of my parents. And despite any injustices he had faced in his life, he very much understood why my mother feels the way she does in life. Literally fighting it until the day before he died. He never once thought he had it worse than her. The only time he was treated 'as badly as her' was when we were all being abused at the same time.

@AMemeByAnyOtherName

teach you about what?

I was pointing out that sweeping "you as a white person need to be tackling racism whenever you see it" statements ignore the realities that many white people face.

I've also not seen anyone claim that the working class is the lowest of the low. I've seen people disputing that members of the working class, alive during the time of slavery, benefitted from slavery but I've not seen anyone claim they are the lowest of the low.

@GoatWardrobe

Given that you have no idea what my ethnicity is as I have never (and probably won't ever) disclose it here, I am not sure how you can validate your first paragraph.

I don't need to 'validate' it. We're all anonymous here. I don't know your ethnicity, you could 'disclose' it and be lying. All I will say is that your response demonstrates no understanding of being profiled, or that the police and judiciary might not be impartial towards you.

With regard to your second point, whatever demographic profile I fit I would be more than happy to be stopped if someone fitting my general description/colour/age group was suspected of a crime.

Now you're talking about something entirely different -- a specific individual who has committed or is suspected of committing, a specific crime. If a red-haired 40something Irishwoman is a suspect for a crime in central London, then it would be deeply unreasonable for me to object to being questioned, as I walk peacefully through Soho to work. But surely you can see the difference between that and always being stopped because you are always automatically under suspicion because of your ethnicity?

I very much doubt that older women (of whatever colour) are routinely stopped.

Although that said, the last time we flew with my 80-year-old MIL her wheelchair was taken apart and she was thoroughly searched, and it also happened on the way home. She didn't object, nor did we, they had a job to so and so we let them get on with it.

If all the police had to go when the IRA was active and suspicious activity was reported then those speaking with an Irish accent should be stopped and questioned.

The issue mentioned on here many times is young black men being stopped. However, if the stats show that demographic is responsible for the majority of x type of crime in a given area why should they not be stopped?

In certain areas of the UK where grooming young girls is prevalent, why would the demographic most often involved not be more actively questioned?

It is easy to shout racism and overlook the stats.

In my opinion, every crime should be profiled and those who fit the offender profile should just suck it up for the good of society as a whole.

You have no idea of my experiences/ethnicity or whether I have ever been profiled or whether members of my family have. My opinion reflects how I see society best becoming safer, it is not based on personal prejudices or perceived racism.

On stop and search I think the Met are considering a more sensible method - stopping people who have been done for knife crime before. That is clearly a good idea as criminals tend to commit crimes again and again.

The issue of whether customs officers should search people who make up the likely person for smuggling or waste 99% of their time searching women over 90 who never smuggle drugs is obviously clear to most people - you search those most likely to do the crimes. Eg my daughter was thoroughly searched when she was coming back from antigua where she'd been working and asked why when chatting to the officer. He said single white female in their 20s were very likely to be carrying drugs. (Obviously it makes more sense to search those ones then than families with children just back from holiday)

"In England and Wales 38% of knife possession offenders under 25s were non-white in 2017. It was two thirds in London." fullfact.org/crime/are-majority-youth-knife-offenders-minority-ethnic/

In my opinion, every crime should be profiled and those who fit the offender profile should just suck it up for the good of society as a whole.

Yuck. I’m n my opinion NOBODY should just have to accept that there life is harder because they aren’t white and those making it harder should be working damn hard to bridge that gap.