Questions for white people

[Questionspandemic]

Why are white people offended by black people talking about racism?

Obviously not all white people are racist and name changed - in case of gaslighting.

50% f the UK is female so sexism is therefore a huge issue. 3% are black and only 12% not white (and in Northumberland where I am from I think it is 97% white) so obviously the bigger evil that affects more people is sexism. If we have spare money or energy that is the more important cause simply because of the numbers.

As said above many many areas of the UK are just about all white. I remember a boy in my son's school down here (where most people are not white where I live) who thought 50% of the UK was not white! That is amazing that he could be so wrong.

Not rtft but first, I am intrigued to know how many of the "not ALL white people" posters are satisfied by the "not ALL men" responses to feminist posts. And to clarify, I am specifically meaning people who say "not ALL {insert group here}" whilst also ignoring the point that was made in the original post.

Secondly, I feel the "people can't understand..." is a cop out. People could understand, if they chose to listen to the lived experiences of others. It is a choice to ignore somebody telling you how something you (or society) did impacted them, because it makes you uncomfortable.

I was on a thread a few months ago where the OP was pretty blunt about what it's like to experience racism.

Many posters were furious and eventually, another black woman came along and posted a very "hearts and flowers" type explanation which was fair enough.

What got me was the posters absolutely falling over themselves to congratulate this person and berating the OP for her "aggressive tone". Telling her that if she spoke nicer people would listen.

Asking this other woman to start her own thread and they would all post there. It was nauseating.

All these white people were concerned about was how the OP made them feel about themselves, not her message or her struggles.

Very eye-opening, to say the least.

most people I suspect just want to get on with their lives in peace with those around them, friends and colleagues. They really don’t care what colour skin you are, or what god you pray to. It’s like the bottom of the list of things to worry about when you meet someone. And then I don’t think most people worry about skin colour/religion do they?

This. I would always challenge racism where I see it, I agreed with the thing about the work colleague facing a disciplinary for circulating a racist vid, of course she should. But theres always this demand to do more and I don't know what more I can do, I'm trying, and I'm tired of being made to feel bad because the world is a shitty place and its beyond my control

Yabvu OP. And the irony of you accusing others of gaslighting.

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland

most people I suspect just want to get on with their lives in peace with those around them, friends and colleagues. They really don’t care what colour skin you are, or what god you pray to. It’s like the bottom of the list of things to worry about when you meet someone. And then I don’t think most people worry about skin colour/religion do they?

This. I would always challenge racism where I see it, I agreed with the thing about the work colleague facing a disciplinary for circulating a racist vid, of course she should. But theres always this demand to do more and I don't know what more I can do, I'm trying, and I'm tired of being made to feel bad because the world is a shitty place and its beyond my control

Can you give examples of these ‘demands’?

Not all men thing - I'm fine with that.

@Lweji yes I do thank you very much. I'm well aware what white privilege is. I'm not a fan of the actual term itself as it implies that if you are white then you're automatically one up on someone who is bame. This quite simply is not the case. It's a matter of luck what circumstances you're born into. Statistics might say that as a white person you're more likely to access a better education, employment etc. This does not mean that if you're white, you automatically have access to those privileges. There are many white people who are born in the UK to poverty stricken parents,parents with SEN, abuse, neglect. The list is endless.

Examples of demands:
Uni friend demanding for public donations to an aggressive US led campaign, pretty unpleasant about people who chose not to.

Being told at work we must get BAME people to apply for roles in our team. We are a very small team working in a boring v niche field in a profession which has long struggled to attract BAME candidates. Theres a particular incredibly dull qualification required for our job and basically it would appear no black people are interested in it (fair play to them, it's boring as fuck). You cant make people want to do a boring albeit well paid job.

Sorry, I can’t remember who mentioned the class system. Is spot on. In the UK if you were working class you were pretty much shit on the shoe of toffs and middle class folk. Look at the fucking titanic fgs, how many third class passengers survived that?!

White working class folk know what it’s like to be looked down upon by Hoo-ray Hen-ries. It wasn’t until after WW2 and the welfare state that our lives and prospects started to get better. Look at places like Tiger Bay and other port cities. Working class folk have been living alongside other ethnicities for a long, long time and when you’re all worried about how your going to feed, clothe, and keep your kids warm you really don’t care about skin colour. You realise you’re all just as dirt poor and at the mercy of the landlords as the next family.

Working class folk have a lot of the same battles as ethnic minorities. It’s laughable to think the old boys network will willingly employ a White working class man in their workplaces.

[quote Krampusasbabysitter]@DeliciouslyFemale I was reproached and have had messages sent to my various social media brand accounts, demanding that I needed to show my support for BLM by replacing the account image with a black square several weeks ago. I was also asked to pledge support for BLM in the company bios etc. I will not. My business pages are about my products and they are not geared towards any specific customer group or politics. My clientele is very diverse and always has been. That’s on account of what I sell. Ironically, some of the messages appear to have come from white people. However, it does not matter who sent me these demands, the content of my business social media accounts is no one else’s business, just as it is down to any individual whether to buy from me or not. Sales figures were up, though this is probably more to do with people generally shopping more online.[/quote]
I don’t agree with forcing anyone to plead their allegiance to any cause. Putting a black/rainbow/union flag/tricolour or any other square because you’ve been told to, doesn’t show support, it just shows that you’ve been bullied into it. Maybe I’m just sensitive to that kind of bullying, because growing up in the troubles I had a couple of nasty ‘you either prove you’re for us or you’re against us’, experiences. The wrong answer, in the case of my cousin, meant a bullet through the head. For me, it was being burned out of my home. That’s why I really don’t feel comfortable with the ‘prove you’re not racist, bigoted, homophobic, etc, by showing your support for our cause.

There are many white people who are born in the UK to poverty stricken parents,parents with SEN, abuse, neglect. The list is endless.
Yes but the point is if they were BAME AND born into those circumstances their lives would be harder.

I'm not a fan of the actual term itself as it implies that if you are white then you're automatically one up on someone who is bame.

Then you don't understand what it is.

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland

Examples of demands: Uni friend demanding for public donations to an aggressive US led campaign, pretty unpleasant about people who chose not to.

Being told at work we must get BAME people to apply for roles in our team. We are a very small team working in a boring v niche field in a profession which has long struggled to attract BAME candidates. Theres a particular incredibly dull qualification required for our job and basically it would appear no black people are interested in it (fair play to them, it's boring as fuck). You cant make people want to do a boring albeit well paid job.

Is that really a big deal? You can say no to the money demands and you won’t be sacked from your well paid job for not recruiting black people. Is that really all it takes to annoy you and say ‘we are fucking trying’?

They don't even have to recruit. Just get to apply.

@SharonasCorona

Why do people keep trotting our the ‘I can’t apologise for my ancestors line’? Why not just be an ally now and forget your ancestors?

Because a big part of the argument is about slavery and the empire and making reparations. People saying that white people are only where they are today because of what our ancestors did.

Culturally though English people tend not to like being told what to do, think or say. It’s why we have a massive issue over wearing masks and people not wanting to follow the covid rules. It’s the principle of being free to think, say and do what we want that means a lot. Once you start condemning people for believing in that you are switching people off your cause.

@Itisbetter

I think you have to ask yourself WHY there are no or few BAME families in your village?

Certainly when we moved to a rural location our BAME friends were horrified and expressed concerns about racism.

BAME people are a small percentage of the total population of the UK. It is very unlikely that every part of the UK will have people from this group living there isn't it? Unless there's one family in every town and village in the UK? In London 60% of the population are white and I'd imagine other major cities are similar so it stands to reason that other areas of the UK will be completely white.

[quote SharonasCorona]@Aloethere

I'm not racist and tbh that is enough for me. I'm not in a position of power, I have no say in hiring/firing anyone. I work 100% online from home, I've no idea what any customers colour is nor do I care. I treat everyone I meet in my day to day life with the same indifference. What is being an ally? It seems to me like it is being performative on online platforms.

Sorry you feel like that. I’m not black but not being racist is not enough for me. Being an ally means speaking up when you see something racist, and yes I know lots of people here say they don’t ever see anything, but lots do and ignore it.
Being an ally means if you’re in a senior position at work making an effort to mentor a BAME colleague looking for help. Being an ally means reporting racism online.

Here’s an example, a woman posted recently saying her colleague shared a racist video which they didn’t realise was racist and she thinks it’s OTT that the colleague is going through a disciplinary and may lose their job. Being an ally is realising that it’s right for that colleague to go through a disciplinary.

Another woman posted that her colleague shared a racist post on Facebook and expected plaudits for unfollowing him. Being an ally is realising that this woman should have reported him to her employers.[/quote]
You don't need to be sorry . Like I said I have no racist friends or family. I work 100% from home by myself. I'm very unlikely to come across any racist behaviour in my circle, of course, I would say something if I did, that's called being a decent person not being an ally.

To be honest the most racist behaviour I have come across because of where I live is towards white people(travellers) so not the kind of racism mumsnet or the internet at large cares about. I do call that out frequently online and have with neighbours when they have stepped out of line regarding our other neighbours. Again that's just called being a decent person where I come from.

@Aloethere ah your second post makes everything clear. Sorry I didn't clock before.

"People saying that white people are only where they are today because of what our ancestors did."

Which I'm pretty sure no educated person could argue is false. And doesn't mean you need to physically pay for something. But acknowledging it would be nice. And even better, would be to listen to what people are saying would help to bring them equity in our current society and redress the balance, instead of chanting 'slavery ended years ago so, get on with it'. A dismissive mantra that I've never quite been able to understand.

It is very unlikely that every part of the UK will have people from this group living there isn't it? Unless there's one family in every town and village in the UK?
Why do you think BAME people AREN’T in every area? Why do you think there are concentrations in some areas? After all if there wasn’t a reason for people to huddle in this way there’d be no logic to your observation.

@EDSGFC PP who are BAME have pointed out they look white unless you look at a particular feature of theirs . So how do you know BAME people aren't everywhere?

Tbh itisbetter a lot of the villagers of any village don’t like any outsiders at all. It’s not racism, it’s more like, “you’re not from around here, we don’t want you, go away.”

It’s like that in my home town, and it’s a very small minded culture. My own mother and her family hardly left the place. I can count on my hand the amount of times we went to the nearest city as a child - twice. They literally had zero desire to venture out of their neck of the woods, nor did they wish to interact with anyone they didn’t know.

And what I mean by that is you could be a white person moving to the Peak District from London, and you’d be talked about and ignored simply because you weren’t from there.