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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Questions for white people

730 replies

Questionspandemic · 15/09/2020 12:54

Why are white people offended by black people talking about racism?

Obviously not all white people are racist and name changed - in case of gaslighting.

OP posts:
NoIDontWatchLoveIsland · 15/09/2020 19:49

I get that but I can't make a BAME person move here!!!

Aloethere · 15/09/2020 19:51

@FreekStar

I don't think white people are offended by black people talking about racism. But I think as a white person, I find it difficult to accept personal responsibility for the atrocities of the past of which I played no part, and feel that I am expected to feel guilty about events out of my control which happened years before my birth. I refuse to accept responsibility for what my ancestors did- but this seems to be what some want.
I agree with this. There does seem to be this idea that we should be contrite. I'm not sure what that would solve really. My ancestors were subjected to famine, I don't expect anyone to feel guilty about that.

I don't care what black people want to talk about. As a white person living in a really white place am I going to spend my time talking about it? No.

NoIDontWatchLoveIsland · 15/09/2020 19:54

There is a BAME family in our community and they are very much at the heart of the community, a member is on the parish council etc. They run one of the only businesses in the village and its heavily supported by the whole community.

Look I'm not saying I'm not trying to do what's asked of me but its hard? How can I imagine things I never see, try to stand in the shoes of people I've never met and know nothing about? I think you have to try and understand we are fucking trying really hard but sometimes we just have no experience at all of what you are talking about

Francessssca · 15/09/2020 19:55

And before I leave this thread as I have things to do, can I just add to the person who says that lower-class working-class are more likely to make their way up,
Research has shown that Lower-class and working-class white boys specifically are very disadvantaged in terms of education. Lots of research has been done on it so you can easily find the stats on google.

Francessssca · 15/09/2020 19:57

And i'm talking about the UK for that research

SharonasCorona · 15/09/2020 19:58

Why do people keep trotting our the ‘I can’t apologise for my ancestors line’? Why not just be an ally now and forget your ancestors?

FreekStar · 15/09/2020 19:59

The most disadvantaged and lowest achieving group in Britain are poor white children. That's fact.

SharonasCorona · 15/09/2020 20:00

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland

I get that but I can't make a BAME person move here!!!
I get that but then it’s not accurate to say unequivocally that there is no racism in your village.
FreekStar · 15/09/2020 20:00

@SharonasCorona Not apologising is not the same as defending.

NoIDontWatchLoveIsland · 15/09/2020 20:00

I think if you are a bame individual living an a very diverse community you may not realise 87% of the UK are white and a huge proportion of them live in small towns where there might be no black people whatsoever. There were none in the town I grew up in. It's really hard to understand the issue when it feels very remote from you. I'm not trying to say it's not a huge issue, but please try to be patient with people trying to grapple with something they dont see, experience or know anything about.

Itisbetter · 15/09/2020 20:03

I think you have to ask yourself WHY there are no or few BAME families in your village?

Certainly when we moved to a rural location our BAME friends were horrified and expressed concerns about racism.

PlanDeRaccordement · 15/09/2020 20:04

:Memememem20
I'm sure the lower and working-class individuals throughout history felt they had "white privledge".

Lweji: In places with slavery, I'm quite sure they did.

@Lweji. You mean in a few places with slavery, right? Because for all of human history, including during the trans Atlantic slave trade, there were slaves of all races in existence. Slavery was, and is, not a Black only history or experience if you stop being Ameri-centric.

Krampusasbabysitter · 15/09/2020 20:05

@DeliciouslyFemale I was reproached and have had messages sent to my various social media brand accounts, demanding that I needed to show my support for BLM by replacing the account image with a black square several weeks ago. I was also asked to pledge support for BLM in the company bios etc. I will not. My business pages are about my products and they are not geared towards any specific customer group or politics. My clientele is very diverse and always has been. That’s on account of what I sell. Ironically, some of the messages appear to have come from white people. However, it does not matter who sent me these demands, the content of my business social media accounts is no one else’s business, just as it is down to any individual whether to buy from me or not. Sales figures were up, though this is probably more to do with people generally shopping more online.

SchrodingersImmigrant · 15/09/2020 20:06

In places with slavery, I'm quite sure they did.
There was a lots of white slavery going on over the history.

But when it's easier for a working class individual to climb the social ladder than a black individual, then that's white privilege.

From what I observed the class in UK makes bigger difference than race. The most deprived of options are actually according to stats poor white boys in deprived areas. That's not to say that racism isn't here. That would be incredibly stupid! But the class in UK is so freaking incredibly important for some reason that it seems to overtake many other factors.
I have BAME family members and friends. The difference of behaviour towards them depending on what car they drive and what they wear is incredible. My DH and his friends are same looking. They are treated differently based on what class people perceive them to be. It genuinely sometimes looks like that class determines how much or little racism you will get.

NoIDontWatchLoveIsland · 15/09/2020 20:07

I'm not saying there is no racism I'm saying we dont see it & encounter it publicly, daily. Yes people could be exercising bias in their thoughts about anything from what they watch on tv to the books they read but those things are private decisions inside their own heads, what can I do about it? I can only make my own choices, which I do

Aloethere · 15/09/2020 20:07

@SharonasCorona

Why do people keep trotting our the ‘I can’t apologise for my ancestors line’? Why not just be an ally now and forget your ancestors?
I'm not racist and tbh that is enough for me. I'm not in a position of power, I have no say in hiring/firing anyone. I work 100% online from home, I've no idea what any customers colour is nor do I care. I treat everyone I meet in my day to day life with the same indifference. What is being an ally? It seems to me like it is being performative on online platforms.
SharonasCorona · 15/09/2020 20:08

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland no one is expecting you to be an expert on racism. No one is expecting you to magic up black friends and neighbours or eyeball your friends and family for racist behaviours. Everyone gets that.

But you did respond to the op saying you’re offended by black people talking about racism because you’re not exposed to it and don’t see it.

Do you not see an issue there?

SharonasCorona · 15/09/2020 20:16

@Aloethere

I'm not racist and tbh that is enough for me. I'm not in a position of power, I have no say in hiring/firing anyone. I work 100% online from home, I've no idea what any customers colour is nor do I care. I treat everyone I meet in my day to day life with the same indifference. What is being an ally? It seems to me like it is being performative on online platforms.

Sorry you feel like that. I’m not black but not being racist is not enough for me. Being an ally means speaking up when you see something racist, and yes I know lots of people here say they don’t ever see anything, but lots do and ignore it.
Being an ally means if you’re in a senior position at work making an effort to mentor a BAME colleague looking for help. Being an ally means reporting racism online.

Here’s an example, a woman posted recently saying her colleague shared a racist video which they didn’t realise was racist and she thinks it’s OTT that the colleague is going through a disciplinary and may lose their job. Being an ally is realising that it’s right for that colleague to go through a disciplinary.

Another woman posted that her colleague shared a racist post on Facebook and expected plaudits for unfollowing him. Being an ally is realising that this woman should have reported him to her employers.

NoIDontWatchLoveIsland · 15/09/2020 20:20

To be fair, I shouldn't have responded, in the sense I'm not offended.

However I get bored when it's all people want to talk about.

PlanDeRaccordement · 15/09/2020 20:20

@Itisbetter

I think you have to ask yourself WHY there are no or few BAME families in your village?

Certainly when we moved to a rural location our BAME friends were horrified and expressed concerns about racism.

Why? Because Europe is majority white, like Africa is majority black, like Asia is majority Asian. I don’t think this should change. If it did, we Asians would be majority EVERYWHERE and then how’d you all feel being a minority EVERYWHERE on the planet?
Fucket · 15/09/2020 20:21

I think there are many reasons why a person may not want to discuss racism. It depends why you want to discuss it with me and how well I know you. Some people don’t give it a thought, maybe they just don’t know any black or ethnic minorities. It is possible to live in parts of the UK and never see a non-white face except on TV. If you don’t feel qualified to talk about racism, why should you be made to? People might be frightened of being caught out, not know the correct terminology and don’t want to offend. In which case it’s best to remain quiet.

I believe there is racial bias in our society. I believe that’s because racial diversity is very new to our country. Our country is built on about 900 years of not having much racial diversity and having a strong Ethnic English culture. It’s not our fault, we need to change but forcing it is making the alt right stronger.

I don’t want to be accused of benefiting from white privilege because I just don’t think I ever have. I grew up in a northern mining town with no none white faces. There were limited opportunities in life, and still are, my ancestors were all dirt poor, worked in horrendous conditions, if they weren’t in the poor house or getting hung for stealing sheep. One of my grandparents had siblings die of malnutrition, the other had a sibling die because they couldn’t afford a doctor. How am I responsible for slavery when my forefathers were little more than slaves themselves? As soon as someone talks about how I’ve benefited from white privilege I get offended. I have a strong working class accent, it ought to be clear to anyone whoever hears me talk that I’ve not had much privilege in my life.

I also don’t like this focussing on our differences and the aggressive nature of BLM. I will not support their methods but That doesn’t make me racist. I also don’t like being bullied into making statements of any kind, even those I support. I think it’s a nasty tactic and I’m not going to be made to talk about racism or take a stand/knee.

I felt the same about clapping for the NHS. I love the NHS but being pressured into rattling pans and spoons every Thursday to show I care, made me think half the people bleating on about how wonderful the NHS were just virtue signalling. They didn’t give a shiny shit about the NHS, it’s just a way to make them feel good. I feel the same about white people who virtue signal how much they support BLM. And corporations that come out and support BLM or pride etc. I think cynically they do it because they think it’s good for sales. I don’t think they care either way tbh, and I feel a loss of respect for them.

Most people I suspect just want to get on with their lives in peace with those around them, friends and colleagues. They really don’t care what colour skin you are, or what god you pray to. It’s like the bottom of the list of things to worry about when you meet someone. And then I don’t think most people worry about skin colour/religion do they?

NoIDontWatchLoveIsland · 15/09/2020 20:21

if you’re in a senior position at work making an effort to mentor a BAME colleague looking for help.

I've offered to do just this. And no one wanted me. Because I am white.

SharonasCorona · 15/09/2020 20:23

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland

To be fair, I shouldn't have responded, in the sense I'm not offended.

However I get bored when it's all people want to talk about.

That’s because you have the luxury of being bored by it. Black people don’t have the luxury, they live it every day. That’s white privilege you have.
MrsTommyBanks · 15/09/2020 20:23

I really don't know. I think it is because it must be really painful to talk about something when you know you are wrong. If that makes sense.
I hate white people who say that GB isn't racist. It's always the beginning of them being racist. It makes me ashamed to be white sometimes.
Where I live has a reputation for being racist and it fucks me right off when people assume I am too. A lot.
I don't understand racism or why people are racists.
Sorry I can't be more helpful OP.

SharonasCorona · 15/09/2020 20:25

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland

if you’re in a senior position at work making an effort to mentor a BAME colleague looking for help.

I've offered to do just this. And no one wanted me. Because I am white.

Not sure you realise how obstructive you are being?
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