Questions for white people

[Questionspandemic]

Why are white people offended by black people talking about racism?

Obviously not all white people are racist and name changed - in case of gaslighting.

@Wherehavetheteletubbiesgone You said a white person was statistically more likely to die in police custody. That statement is incorrect. For the rest of your rant, which is so obviously steeped in racism I see no reason to further respond to. Why don’t you explain further why you think that arrests of white people shouldn’t be 85% of arrests?

@Quaagars yes it does offend me. Because I am being lumped in with a group of people that I strongly disagree with. And there is no need for the ‘not all white people are like that’ when the word ‘some’ before white would have been fine.

@OneForMeToo

Ok so question.

Who’s fault it is that more research even independent research has not been done into black medicine? Considering how many black people are doctors my own gp is as are all the other doctors at the surgery I don’t understand how that’s a racism issue.

Surely the people best to provide the evidence and research for black medicine is black doctors and researchers along side those needing medical help.

In majority black countries are they following white medical books? If so Why haven’t they done work into this field surely it’s hugely beneficial to them.

That's a good question.

If we look at the people who've written the books initially they were white (and male, to make everyone happy). Then books get updated.

My example came to my attention because someone published a book recently exactly to address that issue.

There was another article about how having a black doctor improved health outcomes (I think it was for births in the US).

So, the issue has been identified and there is some progress.

Just in case I'm accused of sexism again, a similar issue happens with women. So many female doctors but still working under the inheritance of a largely male history of medicine.

These issues are being tackled. Progress but somewhat slow.

I will add a small note. I don’t know a lot about medicine in black countries, but there will be a bias if most manuals come from white countries or doctors trained there.

[quote Itisbetter]@SoVeryLost

I posted “I literally said I think that I am responsible for my own behaviour not that of my forefathers how is that a “cop out?” How is it blaming them? Each of us is responsible for our own behaviour. That in no way implies I don’t see racism or understand the impact of history.”

It is a common excuse used by people who are trying to deny racism exists and/or a way of claiming that they aren't benefitting from a system that is racist. You are responsible for your own behaviour and that includes inaction. I’m patently NOT denying racism exists OR that white privilege exists and stating that I am responsible for my own behaviour. . What on Earth is your point?[/quote]
You know exactly what you were doing and I don’t care that I called you out on it. You’re trying to hide behind thinly veiled racist rhetoric. I’m not stupid, I’ve seen it enough times. You’ll have to try harder with me. Like I posted it is commonly used as an attempt to deny racism ‘still’ exists or that they are ‘unfortunately’ the victim of their ancestors. Even mentioning that you aren’t responsible for your ancestors actions is a way of detracting from the discussion about racism.

I live in a place that’s 94-95% white so that 5-6% covers all ethnicities - I don’t see that many non-white people day to day and I’ve only a few friends who aren’t white. I don’t get a chance to hear about people’s experiences and I don’t see much racism around me.

I’ve got a fucking history book and a tv and a smartphone though, so I’ve picked up that white history and institutions are founded on the exploitation and abuse of non-whites. It’s not hard, just dig a little bit into the empire and work forwards to now. It’s a difficult history to acknowledge but once you get over it being personal to you it gets better.

Racism isn't a big problem in the life of a white person who lives in a town where maybe less than 5% of the population isn't white.

Racism isn't a big problem in the life of a white person who lives in a big, diverse city either, because they are a white person.

@unmarkedbythat what's your point?

@stayathomer

drspouse I think the problem is you That was my point, I am the problem because I dont know the right thing to say but when you ask people jump on you (like, let's be honest, you did!) And my son was 7 and the idea of skin colour obviously hadn't come up between the two of them (they generally talk football cards and games!)

Which is why you should talk to him about it, there's no need to get defensive, you now know it's important. So should his teachers. We talk to my DCs about it and so do their teachers.

Im not, but i think alot of people think "wait my life has been a struggle" and they think that breaks are being handed out (as they see it?) and they think when is there going to be a call to rectify all the injustices and obstacles that hold me back.
Obviously that misses the point but it is a scarcity of breaks mindset.

Why are some people determined to make offensive generalisations and assumptions about other people?

You’re trying to hide behind thinly veiled racist rhetoric. nope.

it is commonly used as an attempt to deny racism ‘still’ exists or that they are ‘unfortunately’ the victim of their ancestors. but I agree racism exists and don’t feel I am a victim of my ancestors, do you?

Even mentioning that you aren’t responsible for your ancestors actions is a way of detracting from the discussion about racism. nope it was an attempt to answer Why are white people offended by black people talking about racism? a question posed to WHITE people in the OP. It’s possible to see white privilege and try and redress it EVEN if you are white.

@BovaryX

I have described why. Because there is a certain kind of white activist who is eager to kneel before the quasi religious dogma of critical race theory. This person's political beliefs are predictable and formulaic. But a key part of this is the UK media. Why do Brits not know about David Dorn? Why is the media ignoring dissenting voices from POC in the US?

and EmpressoftheMundane for the post before the one I've quoted - this is exactly what I've experienced. I have read lots, I have watched lots of interviews with people with lots of different views,many of whom are black people who disagree with some or all of the views espoused by movements like BLM. Some of the arguments that I've heard include looking to white people to solve the problem for black people is saying that black people are less than in some way, that claiming that being black immediately puts you at a disadvantage risks encouraging people to just accept their situation and not attempt to change it, that claiming that being black is a disadvantage becomes a self fulfilling prophecy - so then I, as a white person, listening to all of the arguments ends up not knowing what I should be doing, because who am I to say who is right?

The obvious answer of course is that no one is right - that there will be as many "right" answers as there are people yet those in favour of the cancel culture won't accept that and anyone not in wholehearted agreement with everything they have to say is immediately labelled a racist.

Because people who have benefitted from the status quo want to believe that all their successes are down to themselves. By acknowledging racism, they have to accept that part of their success has zero to do with how wonderful/hardworking/smart they are.

^This with bells on.

Which is why you should talk to him about it, there's no need to get defensive, you now know it's important. So should his teachers. We talk to my DCs about it and so do their teachers.
Was I defensive? Sorry!

@Mittens030869

Because people who have benefitted from the status quo want to believe that all their successes are down to themselves. By acknowledging racism, they have to accept that part of their success has zero to do with how wonderful/hardworking/smart they are.

^This with bells on.

This is true for many overpaid privileged people but for every one of those there are ten wondering what breaks they got. So what they HEAR is "you'd be an even bigger loser if your type werent defending racism". I dont agree, but i guess that is how some unsuccessful broke people would join up the dots.

Generally I think most people struggle to care deeply about things which don't directly affect them

I disagree

We can all care about things that don’t directly concern us - eg covid ripping through refugee camps, FGM, capital punishment ent for homosexuality etc

I would say:

• guilt

• embarrassment

• disbelief

• not wanting to believe

• racial prejudice. Whether out and out racism or unconscious bias

Maybe some people are sick of being constantly told that they are racist, that they only have the job or house they worked hard for because of some mythical 'white privilege' gifting it to them. Maybe they are sick and tired of people blaming everything on them and their unconcious racism and bias. Maybe.

I think because they see themselves as the supreme race and see black people discussing racism as insolent and speaking out against “elders and betters”

Maybe true of some but not all.

My mum has been vocal about the protests, saying it’s unnecessary, making an issue out of one thing, when there are lots of people suffering for all sorts of reasons, she says she’s sick of hearing about it. She genuinely can’t see the difference between the racism that goes on, and other societal issues and says it just breeds resentment.

She doesn’t think she is racist. I think that on a conscious level she isn’t. I don’t think she would knowingly treat anyone any differently, but there is no doubt she displays sub-conscious bias, she’s a “I don’t see colour” type person which has its own issues.

I don’t agree with her on any of it, but other than disagreeing with her when she raises it, there’s not much else I can do.

some mythical 'white privilege'

If they believe it is mythical, perhaps they should do some reading.

Are they?
I think it's because yes, BLM but so do women's lives, asian lives, oriental lives, jewish lives, gay lives, disabled lives and all the other groups in society which face daily discrimination but they don't demand a whole separate society just for them, special priority treatment and fast-tracking through positive discrimination - this is unjust and breeds racism.

It is important not just to talk about but to try to change all forms of discrimination, including racism. It is also important to highlight progress made to date and celebrate that. I am fully supportive of all activities that I think work constructively towards making progress - building bridges between communities, opening up opportunities etc. In my own experience poverty is the biggest barrier to opportunity and health in this country and therefore that is where I focus my energies. There are lots of worthy causes. I don't judge others on the choice of worthy cause they choose to support and I don't expect to by judged on the choices I make.

I know for me, and I hope for other people. The recent publicity around all things race related has made me take my head out the sand and make the effort to learn more. I knew the basics and would never knowingly act in a racist way but my own research and reading has helped me realise that it’s a much bigger issue than I ever let myself believe previously.

It has also led to me having in depth conversations with 10 year old DS about issues that probably wouldn’t have come up for discussion in our day to day life due to the demographics of the area we live in.

Some white people do get offended when black people want to talk about racism.

Most people I know do become defensive one way or another. Even when it's other white people talking about it. Or turn away from the discussion.

Genevieva

I really agree - I think poverty is the greatest injustice in the UK and the greatest cause of all disadvantages, regardless of ethnicity.

@dadshere totally agree!