To not pay for gym classes cancelled by the instructor

[KindOfAwkward]

My DD goes to after-school gym classes (two hours on a weeknight and also two hours on the weekend) held at her school but run by an outside instructor.

We pay at the start of the term for the classes with the fees based directly on hours you attend i.e. one or two hours per session, and one or two sessions a week.

At the start of the pandemic, the instructor cancelled the remaining classes - about two weeks of the term were left up until Easter hols.

At the start of this term, we paid for the new term, and I deducted a sum equal to the cancelled classes, i.e. two weeks of two classes of two hours = 8 hours, and paid for the forthcoming hours in advance.

The teacher queried my bank payment and so I explained the maths, also explaining that since she has neither explained in the past six months whether she was planning on credit the cancelled fees, nor the opposite and said that she was not planning to do this, but in fact said nothing at all, that I had simply done the maths myself.

She has come back and said, that the letter she sends out stats that fees paid are non-refundable. I will almost certainly reply to say that IMHO the point about fees being non-refundable was surely about parents wanting refunds if, THEY choose not to attend if say, their child doesn't want to go, or they are away for a weekend, but it surely cannot cover the teacher cancelling the class. Otherwise, taken to its logical conclusion she could take bookings for a whole term and then immediately cancel the classes! Or cancel classes if she fancied a day off. And still be paid! This aside, this is probably not the issue to be querying, rather that even if fees are deemed and accepted by us as non-refundable, it doesn't mean that they shouldn't be transferrable and credited to future classes. It would be entirely fair to simply credit the money, as she normally does if e.g. she cannot do a class because of another commitment or illness. So, to sum up, I can agree with her term about no refunds, but think she is not being fair about crediting the fees for the classes she cancelled herself. Principle is surely the same as, say, a clothes shop saying,:"We can't refund your money, but you can have a credit note." Am I being unreasonable to at the very least point out the logic of my position and see if the teacher can accept that.

YANBU - This seems very cheeky and bad form. Have you spoken to any other parents? What have they said? I would think other people would have done the same as you it seems only fair.

I agree - if a parent cancels - tough you loose the fee. If the teacher cancels, refunds or credits towards next term - which ever the parent prefers

YANBU. There was a statement by the CMA at the start of lockdown which made it clear that consumer protection laws mean that refunds must be given fir service contracts cancelled due to lockdown.

DD goes to gymnastics weekly and I pay £20 a month. They sent out an email at the start of lockdown asking if parents would be willing to continue paying as they are a not for profit class and they would really struggle if these payments were stopped. I see where you're coming from OP but at the same time DD really enjoys her gymnastics and it's the only class she goes to so I was happy to continue paying to keep them afloat.

I would have done the same TBH. YANBU. This just made me think. When we went into lockdown, monday 23rd - Friday 27th of March, I'd paid the fees for my daughters nursery. I never got that back. Not sure if I should query?

@Comefromaway

YANBU. There was a statement by the CMA at the start of lockdown which made it clear that consumer protection laws mean that refunds must be given fir service contracts cancelled due to lockdown.

Thank you @Comefromaway.

I have googled and there is helpful info on, yes, this Govt page from the CMA (Competition and Markets Authority) - looks useful. www.gov.uk/government/publications/cma-to-investigate-concerns-about-cancellation-policies-during-the-coronavirus-covid-19-pandemic/the-coronavirus-covid-19-pandemic-consumer-contracts-cancellation-and-refunds

But I think that law aside, it's bad that one would have to share a legal point like this with the teacher / business owner. They should be coming to the parents to offer IMO

@WhoAmIWhoAreYou

I would have done the same TBH. YANBU. This just made me think. When we went into lockdown, monday 23rd - Friday 27th of March, I'd paid the fees for my daughters nursery. I never got that back. Not sure if I should query?

Do look at the link to the Govt page on this that I think @comefromaway was recommending...but seems your situation must be replicated by so many parents / nurseries everywhere, you can't be the only one in the same situation. www.gov.uk/government/publications/cma-to-investigate-concerns-about-cancellation-policies-during-the-coronavirus-covid-19-pandemic/the-coronavirus-covid-19-pandemic-consumer-contracts-cancellation-and-refunds

@toiletpaper

DD goes to gymnastics weekly and I pay £20 a month. They sent out an email at the start of lockdown asking if parents would be willing to continue paying as they are a not for profit class and they would really struggle if these payments were stopped. I see where you're coming from OP but at the same time DD really enjoys her gymnastics and it's the only class she goes to so I was happy to continue paying to keep them afloat.

@toiletpaper - yes, that's nice of you to continue paying if that's what you did. In this case it is not a not for profit, but a private business. Of course I am sorry that they had to cancel classes, but I don't think it's fair to NOT say anything and just keep the money anyway without even raising the subject, and then just send out new letters about the new term asking for fees again without mentioning the subject and just expecting to keep the money, without even offering to credit it against the new fees

Well maybe you should find new classes. Was hardly the instructors fault the country went into lockdown

YANBU at all.

I suspect that she was hoping no one would question it as it was only a couple of weeks worth of fees, and now she is being called out on it so is panicking as she has already spent the money. Presumably she was entitled to claim the self employed support during lockdown and if she wasnt because she fiddled her income/taxes.....her problem and certainly not yours.

I think you need to talk to other parents and tell them what you have done so she has to deal with it.

@newusername2009

Well maybe you should find new classes. Was hardly the instructors fault the country went into lockdown

Anymore than it was the OP's

Well, @PyongyangKipperbang not for me to know whether she used the Self-employed Income Support Scheme. TBH I imagine her profits are >£50k pa anyway, so that would mean could not apply for it.

My DD’s gymnastics club suspended fees when we went into lockdown. After a few weeks once the dust had settled we were offered the opportunity to do Zoom classes for a donation of whatever we could afford. We were frankly thrilled by this and had, bar the first few weeks, Zoom classes at the same times as her normal schedule for which we chose to pay the full fee as it would likely help the club get up and running again as soon as it was allowed. In August they arranged for small groups to train outside in local parks in addition to the Zoom classes. In other words, my DD’s club tried their very best to maintain a schedule even if it wasn’t perfect, and communicated with us regularly to assess interest and give us updates from the professional body. The difference is that yours didn’t do any of that but still expected to keep the money. I bet that if they’d asked, and offered to put on an extra session or longer sessions, or offered Zoom classes or similar, you’d have been supportive. It’s tough for everyone at the moment but it doesn’t mean you should be penalised any more than the instructor.

@Wiredforsound - there were some Zoom group classes that began to run we were not told that these were being run to replace the actual classes. DD was not interested in attending them. Nor did we insist that she did. I don't fault the teacher for her imagination and energy in keeping people interested but don't think it's fair to unilaterally decide this is your replacement class, whether you can attend or not at that time, want to attend, or have space or equipment at home! She emailed me today to say that DD could have attended these slots (and thus had replacement hours in this way) but the point I will make is that we were not told that these would be the replacements, or offered a choice, or offered credit. And if I am one of the only other parents objecting now (I don't know about other parents) then I think this is also unreasonable of her to protest, since she will surely have achieved 95-99% of her income as usual from those who were happy to forget about the fees paid.

I think yanbu. It's a bit cheeky to keep money for work you haven't done.

I'm a dance teacher and asked my customers to pay until the end of march to keep me afloat, but all of those classes have now been recredited back to the customers since we reopened. She is a CF

I was with you until you said they ordered zoom classes. I think this was entirely fair for the sake of a few weeks fees. It isn't the instructors fault you didn't want to do them

I've just changed my vote when I read about the Zoom replacements... bit of a drip feed there! Your opening post made it sound like they were just keeping your money without offering any alternative.

Have also changed my vote, due to the update about Zoom classes. Zoom classes were a reasonable adjustment for the circumstances.

Appreciate the comments @WombatStewForTea @MyCatHatesEverybody @Purpletomato and to clarify, as I think the nuance matters here. The Zoom classes were not explicitly offered as an alternative, and taking part really wasn't suitable. DD thought it ridiculous to have to exercise in such a small space in our living room. Have you tried doing gymnastics whilst watching a phone or tablet? Do you think the students would be able to watch what the teacher is doing? Or that the teacher would actively be able to see what the students are doing and to coach them? DD was not interested in them, especially since they seemed to be offered quite broadly at all the students as well as 'all the family can join in' sessions and not what are or should have been quite advanced gym sessions. Also it wasn't explained or offered that these are your alternative, replacement sessions. If it was seen as suitable for 95% to 99% of other people then great tor them, and if they are happy to accept these as replacements then I am happy for them, and for the teacher that she has retained such a large amount of revenue without loss - and perhaps without the expense of hall hire, petrol, other staff costs and so on. AI really BU to say, this was not suitable for us and our DD. and whilst I understand you have a non-refundable clause in your sign-up sheet - which you are now citing, but which was surely only there to stop parents asking for refunds for classes missed because of their own decisions / reasons - you should be offering credit for the classes which you yourself cancelled. Short version - the classes were cancelled, they were not re-arranged into Zoom.

Agree that the zoom classes makes a difference to my vote. You say that it was not made clear that they were replacing the normal classes, but I think that would have been pretty obvious? Many other instructors did this.

When I organised the teaching rotas for peripatetics who came into school, that was certainly the understanding for instrumental lessons; the teacher was paid for the term, and if a pupil missed the lesson, there would be no refund as they had taken up the time regardless.
However, big difference, if the teacher could not come in for any reason, (as freelance musicians, they sometimes got clashing gigs, and the percussion teacher was part-time military!) either the lesson was rescheduled or the cost refunded.
The Zoom lessons would only be a valid replacement if the teacher had made it absolutely clear that this was the definite replacement, giving parents the opportunity to cancel if this was not an acceptable substitute, for the very valid reasons which you give.

We signed up for an after school science club for summer term. Paid upfront for the entire term, which was then cancelled because the school could not ensure social distancing and dd's class wasn't one of the classes that went back anyway. No after school clubs ran over the summer term and there are no clubs running this term either. 10 weeks of classes not refunded. It took several attempts to even get a response from the instructor (after I posted publicly on her Facebook page about her ignoring my emails about a refund). Personally, I've decided to let it slide. We are financially comfortable, despite having a business too that was affected by COVID, but we still did very well despite it all. I imagine she has not faired so well. But it's quite poor practice and I hope the school won't have her back in the future as I can't imagine we are the only one's who never received a refund.

Mine also does gym, but via a not-for-profit club. Also run from school hall. The classes are back running now (yay!) but are at a significant loss due to measures that are laid out by SG (not the club), and if we want to be insured then we have to follow them.
Parents have paid termly in advance, and have been asked to waive their refund, or delay it until classes are back to normal, if they can.

It’s not great that coach didn’t communicate the Zoom classes well, but they did set up an alternative which whilst far from ideal was probably the best they could do in the circumstances.

I actually don't agree about the zoom lessons. She didn't make it clear that the remaining sessions would be taught via zoom and she shouldn't have assumed that was suitable for everybody. Being penalised because you don't have the space or equipment to participate in half-arsed zoom sessions isn't on. It sounds like she was just providing something for the kids (and their families?!) to do rather than proper coaching to try to justify keeping the fees. I very much doubt the children would have hit anything out of it and could watch something similar on YouTube. I think it's the way she's gone about it that would annoy me rather than what she has done. It does seem a little bit underhand.