To think they MUST extend furlough in line with other European Countries

[LaurieFairyCake]

Most of the centrist countries are doing 12-24 months.

If they don't do it here for those industries that are hugely affected then we're looking at MASS unemployment, repossessions, huge housing benefit claims...

@EnglishGirlApproximately

For everyone saying that we can't afford it, what's the alternative? If we can't afford this then we certainly can't afford the benefits bill and inevitable economic crash when furlough ends at the end of October. Either way the tax payer will end uppsying for it. I'd rather pay in order to keep businesses open, people staying in their homes and having some disposable income than paying UC. The knock on effect of mass redundancies at the end of October is inevitably more redundancies when there are fewer people able to spend on services.

Universal credit.

People want to feel 'safe' from C19. Let them see the costs, actually feel it.

We can't hide any longer from what lockdown has done - I am vehemently opposed to extending the furlough.

I honestly don't know. On the one hand I have massive sympathy for people still on furlough & am really anxious about mass unemployment. On the other we've already spent over £200 billion on Covid to date, with probably many billions more to come even in a best case scenario. Thats all money which could've been spent on other not-actually-less-important things. Personally I don't want to dump massive debt on the next generation (is it fair that they should foot a massive bill for curtailing a virus which largely passes them by?). And we do need at some point to have a discussion about how proportionate & sustainable this all is. I guess on balance I'd like to see it kept but targetted very carefully at sectors that really can't reopen under any circumstances this winter.

I think the goverment may have to help prop up the travel industry and others who have had real losses but maybe in the way of low interest loans etc and based on actual books and negative profits etc

It's neither fair nor right, but the furlough scheme has distorted the public's tolerance of lockdown and permitted them to indulge an unsustainable level of risk aversion.

The longer it goes on, the greater the damage.

Everyone needs to wake up.

We can't afford it

@purplepingu

I'm self employed in the wedding industry. Technically we've been allowed to reopen with weddings for 30 people. But the reality is, people don't want a wedding for 30 with the current restrictions so have chosen to postpone.

The self employed support covered the period from March-August so less than the furlough scheme. But I've now lost 95% of this year's work, the only work I've done this year being the work I undertook before March. And I have no bookings left at all until the end of the year. So there's been a massive shortfall of help for me. And even then, the support available was only a percentage of my profits so I've still had my business expenses to pay.

Extending the self employed support to wedding industry suppliers would be fantastic, but I don't expect the government to do it. As far as they're concerned, they've allowed weddings to restart so we should all be back working.

We are in a similar situation DP is self employed and predominantly works in the film, festival and wedding sectors he had no work from april - august he still has no work in those sectors however he has managed to pick up a few shifts in a sort of similar sector but is only getting 12hrs a week as so many in his industry are also jumping on any similar work so its being spread round them all. Its not helped by the fact that he is vulnerable as is our son so we were shielding so he was unable to apply for work in supermarkets etc.

If they arent going to extend furlough i really think they need to look at putting a freeze on council tax and other bills because council tax is crippling us at the moment we could just about survive if we didnt have to pay £155 a month for that, but then who pay for the emergency services? I really dont think theres an easy solution

@Refractory

It's neither fair nor right, but the furlough scheme has distorted the public's tolerance of lockdown and permitted them to indulge an unsustainable level of risk aversion.

The longer it goes on, the greater the damage.

Everyone needs to wake up.

Basically this to be honest. I think we need to face up to the hard choices rather than thoughtlessly passing the buck onto young people in the form of billions upon billions of debt (and educational disruption & all the rest). So yes, we can have very little Covid circulating in the community, but we need to be honest about the costs & the implications rather than just thinking that the Government should be magically able to wish all those away (and I'm saying this as someone who hates the Tories ).

I would hope not!

I wonder whether in all honesty all these industries really need prolong up... Perhaps a much smaller wedding industry and a much smaller commercial airline industry and those people doing something more socially useful would be a good thing for society as a whole ...

Propping not prolong

I have actually filled in a universal credit claim to see of we can get anything but sometimes you can just be on the borderline and not be entitled to anything but be worse off than someone who is allowed

If two households have identical circumstances, their entitlement will be the same. If their circumstances are not the same, their needs will be different.

It is just about possible for Household A to have an income a couple of pounds less than Household B, but be better off overall because of UC, but the differences are very small. Nine times out of ten, when someone tells me that this person gets X pounds when they get nothing, it turns out that that person gets more because they have rent to pay, live in an area where rents are highter or has a child with disabilities or something.

Go on one of the online calculators (entitled to or turn2us, @Notfeelinggreattoday, that will tell you whether you'll be entitled to UC and, if so, how much. You may be pleasantly surprised, especially if you don't pay rent as more of your income will be disregarded.

@UntilYourNextHairBrainedScheme Socially useful? I’m training to be a nurse and my husband is the breadwinner until I finish training. We could only afford for me to do this ‘socially needed’ training because of the wedding industry.
He has had a number of his previous brides contact him over covid who have lost a loved one saying how valuable seeing that video footage he took has gotten them through a dark and lonely time.
Please don't belittle something you clearly have little to know idea about and it’s ‘usefulness’ in society. The ripple effect of a whole industry contracting suddenly has long lasting effects on more than just that single industry.

No. Targeted help for key economic sectors, yes. Everybody and jobs thay are likely to fold - no. Covid is here to stay for 1-2 years at least - we can’t and shouldn’t prop up the whole economy - and the economy will change consequentially. A large number of business go bust each year anyway. People have to diversify and try and shift jobs. I have had to change substantially the type of work I do, and have friends who have moved into a variety of other roles especially in supermarkets, distribution, etc.

Bathwater him supporting you would be equally true if he was a professional gambler or arms dealer - people get their money from all sorts of places, it doesn't mean they should all be artificially funded by tax payers.

@Notfeelinggreattoday, you're conflating two different systems: benefits based on need, which everyone is entitled to if they need them, and payable for as long as their need exists, and contribution-based benefits which are based on NI contributions and are for a fixed period. You're not comparing like with like.

If your circumstances were the same as your friend's son, you'd be entitled to UC as a jobseeker, too. And you'd get more, because you're over 21, and you'd get it for as long as you need it. Same as he does. If he was living with a partner who was working, they wouldn't qualify, except for possibly a bit of help towards their rent if the partner's income was low.

The system is flawed, I agree, the upper limits for help are too low and the amounts paid are too low, but these are political decisions. This is what people voted for.

I've been a benefits adviser for almost 14 years and almost every change since 2010 has made things worse overall. Some people are actually better off under UC than they would have been under legacy benefits, notably people working but on low incomes and who don't pay rent, because they get to keep more of what they earn.

I'm hoping that one of the positives that might come out of all this shit is that people who've previously been benefit-bashers actually realise how shit the benefit system is and start voting for a party that will improve things.

@UntilYourNextHairBrainedScheme

I wonder whether in all honesty all these industries really need prolong up... Perhaps a much smaller wedding industry and a much smaller commercial airline industry and those people doing something more socially useful would be a good thing for society as a whole ...

This is nuts.

These industries provide jobs. That makes them ‘socially useful’.

@smilingthroughgrittedteeth, you might be entitled to a reduction in council tax. Councils all have their own scheme these days, and some are surprisingly generous (not mine - I checked it out and we'd get £6 per week reduction if our total income was only £1,000 a month!).

You can apply online a lot of councils, so it's a doddle to find out.

@UntilYourNextHairBrainedScheme The fact you compare the aviation/ weddings with illegal industry as defining socially usefulness really shows how you have a limited idea of what makes society and economies function. I took umbridge at your definition of socially useful because by your linear thinking unless you do one of the prescribed industries in your head you are not contributing to society.
I can only say for the wedding industry but government guidelines regarding refunds and reccomendations out of lockdown is what has been the biggest issues.

I wonder whether in all honesty all these industries really need prolong up... Perhaps a much smaller wedding industry and a much smaller commercial airline industry and those people doing something more socially useful would be a good thing for society as a whole ...

I suspect that won't be a popular view, but I agree with it, tbh.

I work in live events. I am still on furlough. We cannot open. Therefore I can’t work. So I’m not sitting on my arse comfortably enjoying my furlough. I am not able to work as we can’t open. There is now talk of reviewing 1st October date for events.

If we get told we can’t open and furlough ends, our industry literally falls off a cliff. The events industry is worth £70bn to the U.K. economy and at this rate, soon there will be nothing left

Furlough is desperately needed for targeted sectors

For businesses that can still not operate such as nightclubs and theatres yes it should. As it is not there fault they can't open. If a business can open then no, it should end.

That's the way the economy is structured at the moment. It doesn't need to be. Luxury industries should be subject to market forces while essential services are subsidised by tax surely.

Currently people working all hours doing essential work for not especially high pay are subsidising the people (not currently working) in the wedding and airline industry and in industries dedicated only to channelling wealth towards the already wealthy.

@LakieLady but my friends son lives at home rent free and doesn't even bother to really look for work i don't believe properly bare minimum , I will vote for a party that helps those who help thereselves or those who really can't work due to illness or geniune issues
Even this system doesn't pick up people like my friends son he has everything bought and paid for by his parents and still can get benefits despite working briefly for a bit of cash in hand and was then going to get HB when he has a perfectly safe roof over his head , whist others don't have this
Still people that abuse system and i would be glad to go down europes route where it is based a lot on what you have paid in

LakieLady thanks! I'm happy to pay tax as a safety net and to properly support those who can't support themselves - not so happy long term to prop up the wedding and airline industry and those furloughed from desk jobs in industries only about generating shareholder profit.

@EnglishGirlApproximately

For everyone saying that we can't afford it, what's the alternative? If we can't afford this then we certainly can't afford the benefits bill and inevitable economic crash when furlough ends at the end of October. Either way the tax payer will end uppsying for it. I'd rather pay in order to keep businesses open, people staying in their homes and having some disposable income than paying UC. The knock on effect of mass redundancies at the end of October is inevitably more redundancies when there are fewer people able to spend on services.

We do a belated NZ and Australia style island approach. Could be starting to recover by Christmas (admittedly slowly, thanks to not doing it from the start).

This isn't going to go away in the next few months. So we either continue as we are, which is a very bad situation - risk to life and economy - or we do one to two months lockdown now, then reopen but with closed borders. Entrance obviously allowed for freight and emergency, but (like NZ and Aus) with proper quarantine.